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[krisbee]

Hello there,

I have two wall switches that worked for several years, and then all of a sudden, they wouldn't respond to lights on command, only lights off... then, after a few weeks, they won't respond to any remote commands.  They still work locally, but not remotely.  I went and bought two new internal wall light switches, replaced the old ones, figuring some kind of power surge got them, but the new ones work exactly the same.  I have tried different house and number codes to no avail.  This makes no sense, does it?  What happened?

What can I do?  Getting pretty frustrated...

Thanks in advance,
Kris

[billy]

Kris,

What are you using to control the switches with ?
Add any new electronic devices or appliances ?

[steven r]

...Add any new electronic devices or appliances ?

...including any new surge protectors or UPSs!
Do other switches in the house work? If so temporarily switch one of the working ones to the same code as the switch that isn't working and see if it works.

[krisbee]

New appliances.. No.  To control the devices, I am using the plug in controller with the 8 switches... as well as a wall mounted hardwired four switch model.  No surge protectors or UPS's that are new (and no UPS's at all).  There are two plug in modules that work fine, as well as one dimmer switch hard wired model that works just fine.

[steven r]

...I am using the plug in controller with the 8 switches...

What happens if you move the controller closer or different outlets in the house? Does it start working?

Did you try temporarily switching one of the working ones to the same code?

Also try changing the code on the non working switch to a code that works for something else?

Do you have AHP or anything that can show you any signals sent?

These tests, while not foolproof, will help determine it is a defective controller or switch or a line signal problem. I'm betting on a signal problem. This can be either a weak signal or noise on the line. Possible solutions include a signal boaster, noise filters and/or a phase coupler. Also while you can still benefit from a phase coupler even if this test fails, try turning on an electric drier (220V).

Has anyone out there ever had a switch lose sensitivity to a signal? ie Have it stop working or work erratically after a period of time.

[Dan Lawrence]

Believe it or not, I have.

Back in the CP 290 days, the wall switch in my bedroom, A5, stopped being recognized by my X10 control program. It would work manually, but the program could not control it, or would it's time program function woek. I changed the address on the wall switch to A6 and changed it in the control program  as well and it worked and still works today with AHP.

It was the 290 that was failing. When a second address stopped working, I called my local X10 dealer and biought Active Home.

When Active Home Pro came along, I used A5 for a keypress macro that shuts off all lights on housecodes A, C & F

[krisbee]

What happens if you move the controller closer or different outlets in the house? Does it start working?

Yes I did try moving it around.. it didn't work.

Did you try temporarily switching one of the working ones to the same code?

I did.. no avail

Also try changing the code on the non working switch to a code that works for something else?

Yup.. nothing.

Do you have AHP or anything that can show you any signals sent?
[

I don't.

These tests, while not foolproof, will help determine it is a defective controller or switch or a line signal problem. I'm betting on a signal problem. This can be either a weak signal or noise on the line. Possible solutions include a signal boaster, noise filters and/or a phase coupler. Also while you can still benefit from a phase coupler even if this test fails, try turning on an electric drier (220V).

I will try the dryer trick.  I was wondering if I had lost some kind of signal across the phases.  I tried an outlet directly under the light switch, hoping they were in-line... but I don't think they were when I flipped the breaker.  I guess I should switch out the dimmer switch that works with the on/off switch, and see if it is the unit or the line that's the problem.  Might have to wait until this weekend.

[steven r]

...I will try the dryer trick.  I was wondering if I had lost some kind of signal across the phases.  I tried an outlet directly under the light switch, hoping they were in-line... but I don't think they were when I flipped the breaker.  I guess I should switch out the dimmer switch that works with the on/off switch, and see if it is the unit or the line that's the problem.  Might have to wait until this weekend.

Sounds like you're well on your way to becoming an experienced X10 user. 

Without a phase coupler, the X10 signal sometimes has to travel all the way to the street transformer to return its signal. This distance can result in unreliable results. While the coupler is an investment, I recommend every serious X10 user have one. - There are online instructions telling you how to put a capacitor across breakers but this takes care and respect for the power of electricity. Also wiring codes frown on it. (It is the cheapest approach, however.)

While it has its share of challenges at times (Murphy occasionally plays with my system.), the X10 system is an incredible bargain for what it can do.

Check out the mini timer at http://www.x10minitimer.com/. It's a nice timer till you get ready to move up to AHP. Even if you do get AHP you can still use the mini timer as a bed side timer to access macros in the AHP. eg. I have a wakeup macro in AHP that turns on my room light, waits 2 min, turns on the radio, waits 3 min and then turns the overhead light. While it's easy to set a start time for my macro in AHP, a bedside timer set to trigger the AHP macros can be even easier to set when you don't want to get out of bed and go to the computer.

Just a small taste of what you can do. Enjoy!

[krisbee]

The dryer trick didn't work, so I am left with swapping out a known good switch that's a different design and trying that.  I will give an update when I get to do that.

[steven r]

The dryer trick didn't work...

When the "dryer trick" works, its a good indicator that a phase coupler will be useful.
Unfortunately, as Murphy would have it, even if you do fail the "dryer trick" a phase coupler maybe useful.

...I am left with swapping out a known good switch that's a different design and trying that....

Also try putting the switch in question where the good one was.

[steven r]

Check out Roger1818's excellent article he wrote on Phase Coupling. http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Phase_Coupling

[roger1818]

Check out Roger1818's excellent article he wrote on Phase Coupling. http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Phase_Coupling

Thanks for the compliment Steven!   

[krisbee]

Wow, life has been busy for a bit...

I finally got around to swapping the switches around.  The dimmer switch didn't work in the regular switch location, and the regular switch worked in the dimmer's location.

So we know, it is the wiring, not the switch.

So, this location just up and stopped working.  I really can't think of any new appliances that made the change.  Like I said, the dryer trick didn't work.  I would hate to spend money on a phase coupler and find out that it didn't work.  I suppose the best test (but I hate to do it), is flip all of the circuit breakers off except the lamps in the house, and see if I get a signal through that way.

If anyone else has any other advice, I would welcome it!

Thanks for everyone's help... I will keep at it!
Kris

[roger1818]

I finally got around to swapping the switches around.  The dimmer switch didn't work in the regular switch location, and the regular switch worked in the dimmer's location.

So we know, it is the wiring, not the switch.

That isn't surprising.  I figured it wasn't the switch.

So, this location just up and stopped working.  I really can't think of any new appliances that made the change.  Like I said, the dryer trick didn't work.  I would hate to spend money on a phase coupler and find out that it didn't work. 

On one hand I would hate to say that getting a phase coupler will fix your problem and then find out it doesn't, but on the other hand I truly believe that even if it doesn't fix this problem, it will probably prevent future problems.  In my opinion, anyone who is serious about X10 should have some sort of phase coupler. 

You could always put a 0.1uF, 600VDC capacitor across the phases and see if that helps.  If there is a half decent electronics shop locally (not Radio Shack) you should be able to pick one up for at most a couple bucks which isn't much of an investment.  I wouldn't bother mail-ordering one though as by the time you payed for the S&H you could almost have covered the cost of a proper passive coupler (Automated Outlet sells the 4816H Hardwired SignaLinc™ Phase Coupler for $15.99).

I suppose the best test (but I hate to do it), is flip all of the circuit breakers off except the lamps in the house, and see if I get a signal through that way.

If anyone else has any other advice, I would welcome it!

Check out a tutorial I wrote on Troubleshooting X10 Home Automation.  It is still a work under progress, but it should have some helpful hints.

[billy]

I finally got around to swapping the switches around.  The dimmer switch didn't work in the regular switch location, and the regular switch worked in the dimmer's location.
So we know, it is the wiring, not the switch.

Dimmer + Regular switch? what are the model #'s of these switches?
Also what kind of light are you trying to turn on and off?