X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: RichardJay on July 12, 2007, 07:07:05 PM
-
Hi
I started with a few bits of X10 and have been expanding over the years, the module codes seem different to the ones discussed on here - maybe it is because they are UK modules??? It is a pretty simple setup with a TM13U RF Receiver in the lounge, a couple of LW10U Wall dimmable light switches and then some AM12 and LM12 Appliance and Lamp modules. Control wise I have a couple of the HR10 palm remotes and a CM12U computer controller running Active Home.
The system works pretty well on the whole, but I have tried to add a module to a bedroom and it just won't work. I have tested the module in other rooms, they work fine, tried different appliance and lamp modules in the bedroom - nothing???
Does anybody have any ideas why they would not work in just this room - it is plugged directly into a wall socket without any extension leads etc.
Thanks for your help
Regards
Richard
-
Hi
I started with a few bits of X10 and have been expanding over the years, the module codes seem different to the ones discussed on here - maybe it is because they are UK modules??? It is a pretty simple setup with a TM13U RF Receiver in the lounge, a couple of LW10U Wall dimmable light switches and then some AM12 and LM12 Appliance and Lamp modules. Control wise I have a couple of the HR10 palm remotes and a CM11A computer controller running Active Home.
The system works pretty well on the whole, but I have tried to add a module to a bedroom and it just won't work. I have tested the module in other rooms, they work fine, tried different appliance and lamp modules in the bedroom - nothing???
Does anybody have any ideas why they would not work in just this room - it is plugged directly into a wall socket without any extension leads etc.
Thanks for your help
Regards
Richard
I'm not sure what the electrical codes are like in the UK, but you most likely have some type of ground-fault interrupter circuit in the bathroom to prevent people from being electrocuted. That is likely the culprit.
-
Thanks for the quick response!!
Units work OK in the other bedrooms and the electrics in the bathroom, being an extractor fan and electric undertile heating, are on a seperate circuit on the mains consumer unit.
Could there be anything else???
P.S. You guys in the US get loads more X10 stuff and it is soooooo much cheaper than here!
-
Thanks for the quick response!!
Units work OK in the other bedrooms and the electrics in the bathroom, being an extractor fan and electric undertile heating, are on a seperate circuit on the mains consumer unit.
Could there be anything else???
P.S. You guys in the US get loads more X10 stuff and it is soooooo much cheaper than here!
That's because X10 USA won't sell to England or Europe due to differing electrical standards. Anything X10 for there is custom engineered for the particular area.
-
Thanks for the quick response!!
Units work OK in the other bedrooms and the electrics in the bathroom, being an extractor fan and electric undertile heating, are on a seperate circuit on the mains consumer unit.
Could there be anything else???
P.S. You guys in the US get loads more X10 stuff and it is soooooo much cheaper than here!
My apologies! The first time I read your post, I thought you said in a "bathroom" ::) ??? ;D
-
There is a ton of information here on the forum about Phase problems, signal suckers, and noise generators. You will also find information about repeaters, phase couplers, and filters. This information may..... or may not relate to your problem.
But... since you did mention that the unit prices are higher in the UK you may want to try a simple tests before you spend. There is also plenty of information here about trouble shooting and circut mapping.
I would 1st try putting a transceiver in the bedroom (on a different house code) and see if they worked then. A "cheap" simple solution could be a nightstand plug-in remote.
-
Several months ago a fellow in the United Kingdom purchased the 240V 50Hz version of the XTB-II to solve his X10 reliability problems. The initial unit worked fine with his older X10 modules, but did not work with the newer X10-2 modules sold by a company in Hong Kong. His XTB-II was updated to provide 3-phase transmission, and then the X10-2 modules began working. I received a status report from him last night that said everything has been working great since then. So, that may be something to consider here.
Jeff
-
...My apologies! The first time I read your post, I thought you said in a "bathroom" ::) ??? ;D
If he meant bathroom, then he would have written loo. :)
-
...The initial unit worked fine with his older X10 modules, but did not work with the newer X10-2 modules sold by a company in Hong Kong...
Do you have more details on these "X10-2" modules (to narrow down a GOOGLE SEARCH)?
Thanks! ;)
-
A GOOGLE search resulted in this link: http://www.letsautomate.com/index.cfm?Nav=X10 It's a UK company and X10-2 modules are listed.
-
Do you have more details on these "X10-2" modules (to narrow down a GOOGLE SEARCH)?
Here's the link I have:
http://x10-hk.com/store/index.php?cPath=21
Jeff
-
Hi,
I have the same problem, only on one circuit, with a wall switch module and an appliance module
I'm in Canada, i have a CM15A interface.I tried on every other circuit and it works fine.
I don't think it's a phase couple problem because it would be the same on some other circuits.
Still searching!!
-
Very weird!!
These modules where installed a month ago and everything was working fine an then nothing.
Now i just tried them again and they work!!!
Any ideas?
-
I have some ideas.... but don't assume they are right, for your setup. All setups differ, although most problems that do occur are generally comman ones.
Here at my home my laptop can disrupt service to two modules. Both are appliance modules and both are on the same circut as the laptop. It doesn't matter if the laptop is on or not... it's the power adapter/transformer that causes the problem.
My wife's cell phone charger, causes a similar problem when left plugged in, on a smaller scale. I also have a lamp with a thick magnifying lens surrounded by a fluorescent lamp. It has a large transformer and will also disrupt a couple modules, so I don't leave it plugged in.
-
Not sure but i think i found the problem.
I found another module not working, i can light it up but not off and no diming either so i
turned on the oven and the module works. i have my answer, i need a phase coupler!
The only thing i wonder is it only started after a month?
Thanks for your help
-
Not sure but i think i found the problem.
I found another module not working, i can light it up but not off and no diming either so i
turned on the oven and the module works. i have my answer, i need a phase coupler!
The only thing i wonder is it only started after a month?
You may have part of the solution. Normally, if you can turn a device on but not off - the load connected to the device is generating noise. When you turn it on, your X10 module can no longer "hear" the commands that you are sending because of the increased noise level.
In your case, this module sounds like it's on the opposite phase from your CM15a. Turning on the oven increased the signal available at the modules location (as you've already recognized) but it doesn't change the fact that the load is generating noise. What are you switching with this module?
Adding a phase coupler is never a bad idea. I'm just pointing out that you may want to investigate this possible noise source before it comes back and bites you again.
-
Something changed. Like a new electronic device is added to the home even one you may not have thought of. Like a new cell phone charger etc.
Another thing could be a installed device that was no problem has aged and changed enough to be a problem.
-
Not sure but i think i found the problem.
I found another module not working, i can light it up but not off and no diming either so i
turned on the oven and the module works. i have my answer, i need a phase coupler!
The only thing i wonder is it only started after a month?
You may have part of the solution. Normally, if you can turn a device on but not off - the load connected to the device is generating noise. When you turn it on, your X10 module can no longer "hear" the commands that you are sending because of the increased noise level.
In your case, this module sounds like it's on the opposite phase from your CM15a. Turning on the oven increased the signal available at the modules location (as you've already recognized) but it doesn't change the fact that the load is generating noise. What are you switching with this module?
Adding a phase coupler is never a bad idea. I'm just pointing out that you may want to investigate this possible noise source before it comes back and bites you again.
I have 2 WS467 switching incadescent lamps and 1 AM466 switching an air conditioner(this one does not turn on or off)
-
I have 2 WS467 switching incadescent lamps and 1 AM466 switching an air conditioner(this one does not turn on or off)
OK, if I understand things correctly -
- You can turn your WS467 incandescent lamps on but not off
- Your AM466 connected to an air conditioner will not respond at all (on or off)
If this is true, I'd say that my suggestions resulted were a strike out on my part (sorry).
Refer to Brian's post -
Something changed. Like a new electronic device is added to the home even one you may not have thought of. Like a new cell phone charger etc.
Another thing could be a installed device that was no problem has aged and changed enough to be a problem.
Look for any new devices that may have been installed. If you have a family, these may not have been installed by you (walkman, cell phone charger etc). I have found that I need a significant amount of "signal margin" to accommodate portable devices (boom boxes, etc). I have X10 amplifiers on some of my heavily loaded lines, but the portable load can still cause problems.
If you can't identify anything new in your system, something may have aged (yes appliances do age) or there may be a new source of outside interference.
In either case, unless you have an X10 signal tester that can monitor noise and signal levels, your idea of a phase coupler would appear to be good.
-
I have 2 WS467 switching incadescent lamps and 1 AM466 switching an air conditioner(this one does not turn on or off)
OK, if I understand things correctly -
- You can turn your WS467 incandescent lamps on but not off
- Your AM466 connected to an air conditioner will not respond at all (on or off)
If this is true, I'd say that my suggestions resulted were a strike out on my part (sorry).
Refer to Brian's post -
Something changed. Like a new electronic device is added to the home even one you may not have thought of. Like a new cell phone charger etc.
Another thing could be a installed device that was no problem has aged and changed enough to be a problem.
Look for any new devices that may have been installed. If you have a family, these may not have been installed by you (walkman, cell phone charger etc). I have found that I need a significant amount of "signal margin" to accommodate portable devices (boom boxes, etc). I have X10 amplifiers on some of my heavily loaded lines, but the portable load can still cause problems.
If you can't identify anything new in your system, something may have aged (yes appliances do age) or there may be a new source of outside interference.
In either case, unless you have an X10 signal tester that can monitor noise and signal levels, your idea of a phase coupler would appear to be good.
Not sure about the phase coupler, now even with the oven on, i still have some problems with the same modules even with another wall switch (in the same room).
I know nothing new was installed, as for age of the appliances, what do i need? A signal booster/amplifier-coupler or a signal filter?
Would it be possible i have problems because i have aluminium wiring?
Could i see something with my scope?
-
Not sure about the phase coupler, now even with the oven on, i still have some problems with the same modules even with another wall switch (in the same room).
I know nothing new was installed, as for age of the appliances, what do i need? A signal booster/amplifier-coupler or a signal filter?
Would it be possible i have problems because i have aluminium wiring?
Could i see something with my scope?
yvabi,
Wow - I haven't dealt with aluminum for many years.
I have no idea whether you have experience in dealing with aluminum wiring - you mentioned using a scope so I dearly hope that you do.
Aluminum wire itself isn't a problem. The connections are.
If you are not familiar with aluminum wire terminations, and used standard twist on connectors for your WS467, please pull the breaker for that circuit now.
This a potentially hazardous situation. I'm trying to post this quickly. Get back with me.
-
I don't see nothing with my dinosaure 10 Mhz scope. For the aluminium wiring, i have only 2 wall switch modules with aluminium (the joints have penetrox)
Some parts of the house is with aluminium wiring and some other with copper.
Solved half the problem, i switched the lines on the circuit i had problem with ( i know it's a patch but it works for now while i get a phase coupler or amplifier )
One thing i'm wondering, are the modules affected by humidity, i have one in the attic and we had a lot of rain these past few days.
-
I don't see nothing with my dinosaure 10 Mhz scope. For the aluminium wiring, i have only 2 wall switch modules with aluminium (the joints have penetrox)
Some parts of the house is with aluminium wiring and some other with copper.
Solved half the problem, i switched the lines on the circuit i had problem with ( i know it's a patch but it works for now while i get a phase coupler or amplifier )
One thing i'm wondering, are the modules affected by humidity, i have one in the attic and we had a lot of rain these past few days.
If a 10 MHz scope is a dinosaur, that would make my Tek 310a (tubes - circa 1958) a single cell organism??
Per your previous post - the aluminum wiring itself should not pose a problem for X10 signals. This assumes you have good junctions on all of your branch circuits and you obviously understand the problems associated with these. Assuming that you aren't seeing voltage drops across the junctions (line loading, lights dimming, appliances or motors slowing down) we'll discount the aluminum.
Since you can't see any line noise with your oscilloscope (not the easiest thing to look for) you may have a case of signal absorption. Try isolating this by shutting down circuits (popping the breakers) until your system becomes reliable. Then investigate that circuit for loads (power supplies, chargers, etc). You can then isolate these devices with filters.
As far as humidity affecting X10 switches - I have a number in my garage and basements and haven't had a problem. I believe OldTimer has an installation in his attic.