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📝Reviews => X10 Hardware => Protector Plus Reviews => Topic started by: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 02:16:24 PM

Title: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 02:16:24 PM

As most of the regulars know I have a place totally off the grid running on solar and wind,
this is to be a retirement place (hopefully) ;)
After setting up my electrical I soon discover that my x10 gear was useless running a modified sine wave inverter! Pure sine wave inverters are expensive(especially large ones)
I thought my hopes of protecting this remote place were gone until I found this Post: 6-watt security system to run off your battery, bank, or powerpack (http://wardenclyffetower.com/forums/thread/66.aspx)
After reading it I realized this was possible! ;) :D ;D
I ordered my unit right away! Not wanting to damage the unit with the modified sinewave, I wired a 9v Wallwart to the unit.
Motion sensors ,Door/Window sensors all work fine as they send the information to the unit RF
My unit dials out and informs me of any intrusion and resets, Of coarse I'm limited to not having any extra sirens or lights turning on/off but I'm working on that! ;) :D ;D
A true sine wave inverter is on my wish list but a security system no longer is!
A true test will be if I ever have a break in and hopefully that never happens!

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: KDR on April 01, 2007, 02:23:48 PM

Great work around Tuice and I hope you never have to find out if it works or not. True sine wave inverters are expensive but with any luck as technology marches on so will the dropping in price.

_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^----KDR

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 02:35:40 PM

Well it works but Not sure if it will deter a thief, If not I've rigged up a wired cam (embedded into the logs) and a VCR Commander so I will know who they are and they won't get away with it!(for long) ;) :D
The siren will mask the sound of the VCR Commander coming on if they get any farther into the home! ;)

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: TakeTheActive on April 01, 2007, 03:05:30 PM

Interesting discovery by wctadmin!

I'm amazied on how much functionality remains WITHOUT 120VAC. The fact that it resets after 4 minutes and then REARMS is great! (http://www.x10community.com/forums/Themes/x10theme1/images/post/thumbup.gif)

I re-read the article (and follow-up posts), but I didn't see what wctadmin was plugging the GE Converter into. ???

(http://www.x10community.com/forums/Themes/x10theme1/images/post/lamp.gif)But thinking (out loud) about rechargeable batteries (at 1.2VDC per cell - burned into my brain) and solar cells (which I have NOT researched), given that the control center works so well at 9VDC and minimum current draw, what is the feasibility of assembling a 9VDC Gel Cell and constantly trickle charging it via a solar cell pack? 8)

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 03:40:56 PM

Quote from: TakeTheActive on April 01, 2007, 03:05:30 PM

I re-read the article (and follow-up posts), but I didn't see what wctadmin was plugging the GE Converter into. ???

wctadmin was plugging the GE Converter into a 12 volt system.
he is slowly moving to low power devices to run off a solar 12 volt system.

Quote

(http://www.x10community.com/forums/Themes/x10theme1/images/post/lamp.gif)But thinking (out loud) about rechargeable batteries (at 1.2VDC per cell - burned into my brain) and solar cells (which I have NOT researched), given that the control center works so well at 9VDC and minimum current draw, what is the feasibility of assembling a 9VDC Gel Cell and constantly trickle charging it via a solar cell pack? 8)

A typical 9 volt battery will power the unit for 12 hours according to the manual(less I assume if an alert is triggered) Just trickle charging a 9volt rechargeable would work as long as you didn't have any lengthy days without sun. ;) :D

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: TakeTheActive on April 01, 2007, 04:18:29 PM

Quote from: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 03:40:56 PM

Quote from: TakeTheActive on April 01, 2007, 03:05:30 PM

(http://www.x10community.com/forums/Themes/x10theme1/images/post/lamp.gif)But thinking (out loud) about rechargeable batteries (at 1.2VDC per cell - burned into my brain) and solar cells (which I have NOT researched), given that the control center works so well at 9VDC and minimum current draw, what is the feasibility of assembling a 9VDC Gel Cell and constantly trickle charging it via a solar cell pack? 8)

A typical 9 volt battery will power the unit for 12 hours according to the manual (less I assume if an alert is triggered) Just trickle charging a 9volt rechargeable would work as long as you didn't have any lengthy days without sun. ;) :D

Look again, Good Buddy! :o I wasn't talking about a 9VDC, 150mAh NiMh or NiCd, but a 9VDC, 10Ah Gel Cell! (Like the ones in your UPS. ;) IIRC, they're 12VDC @ 7Ah though. I *KNOW* that they also make 6VDC, but gotta SEARCH GOOGLE to see about 9VDC, or 3VDC. )

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 05:03:52 PM

Quote from: TakeTheActive on April 01, 2007, 04:18:29 PM

Look again, Good Buddy! :o I wasn't talking about a 9VDC, 150mAh NiMh or NiCd, but a 9VDC, 10Ah Gel Cell! (Like the ones in your UPS. ;) IIRC, they're 12VDC @ 7Ah though. I *KNOW* that they also make 6VDC, but gotta SEARCH GOOGLE to see about 9VDC, or 3VDC. )

Yes I know, I haven't put a meter on mine yet to see what it uses during an alarm trigger.
 If that was the only thing running from it you probably wouldn't have a problem but with all solar stuff you need sufficient storage for those cloudy days! We can get 5 or more in a row up here! Usulay only during the winter months thought! ;) Just like to point out any draw backs one might en-cure. My system consists of 10 or 12(can never remember) 6 volt batteries @ 220ah each but then I'm running a house! ;)

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: TakeTheActive on April 01, 2007, 05:37:20 PM

Quote from: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 05:03:52 PM

My system consists of 10 or 12(can never remember) 6 volt batteries @ 220ah each but then I'm running a house! ;)

I'll bet *THAT* could get a Craftsman wrench glowing! :o

What composition are they? Lead-Acid Deep-Cycle Marine?

Would you, or anyone else following this, know the range in Ah of available automobile batteries?

Quote from: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 05:03:52 PM

Quote from: TakeTheActive on April 01, 2007, 04:18:29 PM

Look again, Good Buddy! :o I wasn't talking about a 9VDC, 150mAh NiMh or NiCd, but a 9VDC, 10Ah Gel Cell! (Like the ones in your UPS. ;) IIRC, they're 12VDC @ 7Ah though. I *KNOW* that they also make 6VDC, but gotta SEARCH GOOGLE to see about 9VDC, or 3VDC. )

Yes I know, I haven't put a meter on mine yet to see what it uses during an alarm trigger.

I was just roughly extrapolating out from what we already know (too lazy to build a 'pretty' table right now :P ):

• 0150mAh: 012 hours
• 0300mAh: 024 hours - 01 day(s)
• 0600mAh: 048 hours - 02 day(s)
• 1200mAh: 096 hours - 04 day(s)
• 2400mAh: 192 hours - 08 day(s)
• 4800mAh: 384 hours - 16 day(s)
• 9600mAh: 768 hours - 32 day(s) on 9.6Ah

Quote from: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 05:03:52 PM

...you need sufficient storage for those cloudy days! We can get 5 or more in a row up here!

Yeah, so?? ???  How many cloudy days? ;)

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 06:43:33 PM

Quote from: TakeTheActive on April 01, 2007, 05:37:20 PM

What composition are they? Lead-Acid Deep-Cycle Marine?

Lead-Acid Deep-Cycle

Quote

Would you, or anyone else following this, know the range in Ah of available automobile batteries?

Automobile batteries are rated differently although you could use one for this application they aren't meant to be discharged then recharged to the extent of a deep-cycle battery Most have the rating printed on the battery!

Quote

I was just roughly extrapolating out from what we already know (too lazy to build a 'pretty' table right now :P ):

• 0150mAh: 012 hours
• 0300mAh: 024 hours - 01 day(s)
• 0600mAh: 048 hours - 02 day(s)
• 1200mAh: 096 hours - 04 day(s)
• 2400mAh: 192 hours - 08 day(s)
• 4800mAh: 384 hours - 16 day(s)
• 9600mAh: 768 hours - 32 day(s) on 9.6Ah

And that is without an alarm condition that just keeps the information in tack!
I'm not trying to shoot down your Idea if thats how it appears!
I don't know much about the small solar chargers other then they don't weather well!
It may be cheaper to trickle charge a 12volt battery and convert it to 9 similar to the way wctadmin has done ;) :D ;D

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: TakeTheActive on April 06, 2007, 01:45:38 PM

Quote from: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 06:43:33 PM

Quote from: TakeTheActive on April 01, 2007, 05:37:20 PM

Would you, or anyone else following this, know the range in Ah of available automobile batteries?

...Most have the rating printed on the battery!

I don't have one handy here in my den - would you mind reading off the label on yours?  ;D

Quote from: Tuicemen on April 01, 2007, 06:43:33 PM

I'm not trying to shoot down your Idea if thats how it appears!
I don't know much about the small solar chargers other then they don't weather well!
It may be cheaper to trickle charge a 12volt battery and convert it to 9 similar to the way wctadmin has done ;) :D ;D

Naw, I'm not thinking you're shooting it down - I'm thinking you're not understanding it. ;)

My understanding is, supplying the correct voltage is always more efficient than regulating a higher voltage (i.e. heat equals wasted energy). So, strictly for the Security Console, I'm thinking a 9VDC @ 7Ah Sealed Gel Cell with one of those 'inexpensive' 12VDC Solar Cells that you can place on the dashboard of your car and plug into the cigarette lighter.

K.I.S.S. from an "Old Tinkerer" - that's all. 8)

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on April 07, 2007, 10:44:45 AM

I believe their is a site that breaks down a normal car batteries cranking amps into AH But for the price difference A deep cycle battery is the best .
I found this clip from Northern Arizona Wind & Sun (http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Starting,%20Marine,%20and%20Deep-Cycle%20Batteries)
Starting, Marine, and Deep-Cycle Batteries

• Starting (sometimes called SLI, for starting, lighting, ignition) batteries are commonly used to start and run engines. Engine starters need a very large starting current for a very short time. Starting batteries have a large number of thin plates for maximum surface area. The plates are composed of a Lead "sponge", similar in appearance to a very fine foam sponge. This gives a very large surface area, but if deep cycled, this sponge will quickly be consumed and fall to the bottom of the cells. Automotive batteries will generally fail after 30-150 deep cycles if deep cycled, while they may last for thousands of cycles in normal starting use (2-5% discharge).
  
  
• Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates. The major difference between a true deep cycle battery and others is that the plates are SOLID Lead plates - not sponge. Unfortunately, it is often impossible to tell what you are really buying in some of the discount stores or places that specialize in automotive batteries. The popular golf cart battery is generally a "semi" deep cycle - better than any starting battery, better than most marine, but not as good as a true deep cycle solid Lead plate, such the L-16 or industrial type. However, because the golf cart (T-105, US-2200, GC-4 etc) batteries are so common, they are usually quite economical for small to medium systems.
  
  
• Many (most?) Marine batteries are usually actually a "hybrid", and fall between the starting and deep-cycle batteries, while a few (Rolls-Surrette and Concorde, for example) are true deep cycle. In the hybrid, the plates may be composed of Lead sponge, but it is coarser and heavier than that used in starting batteries. It is often hard to tell what you are getting in a "marine" battery, but most are a hybrid. "Hybrid" types should not be discharged more than 50%. Starting batteries are usually rated at "CCA", or cold cranking amps, or "MCA", Marine cranking amps - the same as "CA". Any battery with the capacity shown in CA or MCA may not be a true deep-cycle battery. It is sometimes hard to tell, as the terms marine and deep cycle are sometimes overused. CA and MCA ratings are at 32 degrees F, while CCA is at zero degree F. Unfortunately, the only positive way to tell with some batteries is to buy one and cut it open - not much of an option.

Quote

I don't have one handy here in my den - would you mind reading off the label on yours? 

each size has a different rating it will be stated as cranking amps for a starting battery and Amp Hours on a deep cycle.
There are limitations to running the DS700 on 9 volts (you can't activate lights and no extra siren)
Although SmartHome does sell an extra weather resistant wired siren (http://www.smarthome.com/73931.html) for their (Smarthome SecureLinc II Wireless Security) System I'm not sure if it will work with the PowerHouse PS561 ( that may be my next mod) ;) :D ;D

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on June 19, 2007, 11:02:10 AM

Update:
I had my sisters and their families up for a few days!
I have the system set to chime when a door /window is opened and that didn't seem to catch anyones attention.
latter that night while sitting around the fire place(was raining outside) the unit chimed!
 Almost every one asked "What is that?"
 I responded with "The security system is telling me someone left the door open!", as I got up and closed the sliding door.
Everyone was amazed,  I told them it would even phone me in the event of a break-in and allow me to listen in ,their eyes widened even more!
When I told them there was no monthly charge for that they were more amazed!
"Wow High tech features in a log home miles from nowhere" was one comment. ;D :D
This unit continues to bring a smile to my face as well as peace of mind! ;)

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: tinnman357 on June 19, 2007, 06:47:32 PM

Very cool Tuicemen,
           This is kinda off topic. You had noted earlier that you use wind as well. My question is how much of your place does the solar run? And if you don't mind me asking. Your square footage? I live in Florida and have been thinking getting into solar. But so far Ive been hearing prices of 30 to 40 (to get off grid). I think 12 would be well worth it. The generator (whole house) Ive been looking at is around 9. But then you have to have a propane tank and then insurance goes up bla..bla..bla. Anyway any info you care to pass along on this issue would be appreciated. thanks

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: HA Dave on June 19, 2007, 07:21:38 PM

Quote from: tinnman357 on June 19, 2007, 06:47:32 PM

.........have been thinking getting into solar. But so far Ive been hearing prices of 30 to 40 (to get off grid).

Sorry tinnman.... I know your question is to Tuicemen. Your post just caught my attention.

I lost power to my home 5 times the 1st summer we moved in, so I bought a back-up generator. That was nearly 6 years ago, and I haven't lost power since I got it. Now I see where Sam's Club (on-line) has a "back-up" solar system, I could use to replace the generator. Of course, the "back-up" solar system wouldn't replace the grid...... but it could shave down the electric useage.... as well as be there in an emergency.

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: tinnman357 on June 19, 2007, 07:29:59 PM

No problem Dave,
              Thanks for the tip on the solar b/u from Sam's. I will have to look into that.

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on June 20, 2007, 07:13:48 AM

Quote from: tinnman357 on June 19, 2007, 06:47:32 PM

Very cool Tuicemen,
           This is kinda off topic. You had noted earlier that you use wind as well. My question is how much of your place does the solar run? And if you don't mind me asking. Your square footage? I live in Florida and have been thinking getting into solar. But so far Ive been hearing prices of 30 to 40 (to get off grid). I think 12 would be well worth it. The generator (whole house) Ive been looking at is around 9. But then you have to have a propane tank and then insurance goes up bla..bla..bla. Anyway any info you care to pass along on this issue would be appreciated. thanks

Thanks tinnman357
The whole house runs off solar via a 2400 watt, 4000 watt surge  inverter.
The wind generator just acts as a secondary means of charging the battery bank (cloudy days)
The home (cottage) is roughly 2000 sq but size isn't a factor.
For more info  check out Wardenclyffe Tower (http://wardenclyffetower.com/forums/default.aspx) I have posted pics there as well as some info!
Any further questions on alertate energy I'll be happy to answer there! ;)
The good thing about solar is you can always expand on your existing settup as I have! ;) :D

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: TakeTheActive on June 20, 2007, 10:49:11 AM

Quote from: Tuicemen on June 20, 2007, 07:13:48 AM

...The home (cottage) is roughly 2000 sq but size isn't a factor...

All I can say is
WoW!
(and if my wife ever saw this picture, I'd be in for a HEAP of nagging! ::) )

Nice work! (http://www.x10community.com/forums/Themes/x10theme1/images/post/thumbup.gif)

Note: edited by tuicemen to fix pic link

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on June 20, 2007, 10:57:44 AM

Quote from: TakeTheActive on June 20, 2007, 10:49:11 AM

All I can say is
WoW!
(and if my wife ever saw this picture, I'd be in for a HEAP of nagging! ::) )

Nice work! (http://www.x10community.com/forums/Themes/x10theme1/images/post/thumbup.gif)
[/center]

LOL best not let her find this site now! ;)
Thanks TTA

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: JimC on June 20, 2007, 11:51:35 AM

TTA,

Now you went and did it.
You had to post that picture here. Now I can’t stop drooling.

I can’t think of a nicer place to retire. How is the fishing?

Great job Tuicemen  

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on June 20, 2007, 12:37:09 PM

Quote from: JimC on June 20, 2007, 11:51:35 AM

TTA,

Now you went and did it.
You had to post that picture here. Now I can’t stop drooling.

I can’t think of a nicer place to retire. How is the fishing?

Great job Tuicemen  

thanks JimC Great Smallmouth Bass and Rainbow Trout although I've been a little to busy to fish lately! :(
The picture is a few years old,there are a few more solar panels on the roof now! ;)

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: KDR on June 20, 2007, 04:16:21 PM

Hey Tuicemen very nice arrangement of logs. Is the small section to the left in the picture my room, and where do put my dogs?

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: HA Dave on June 20, 2007, 06:11:30 PM

You proably need a caretaker to watchover your cottage while your at home and working. I may be retiring soon. If you need me to help out, and stay at your cottage..... just let me know!

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: tinnman357 on June 20, 2007, 06:24:06 PM

That place is AWSOME!!!
  Thank you Sir for the info, when things slow down at work i will certainly dig in a little more. I would be happy for now with getting the A/C, spa, and pool pump independent. And it would be a good b/u when the hurricanes come thru. The only other big power draw I have is a teenager and that's not going to change till she's 18 and out! Thanks again.

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on June 21, 2007, 12:35:15 AM

Duh!  I thought Wardenclyffe Tower sounded familiar!   ;)

Cheers to Tesla!   ;D

Oh, yeah... Nice diggs Tuicemen!   :o   8)

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on June 21, 2007, 12:05:07 PM

Thanks everyone for the complements!
tinnman357: You'll find many solar enthusiasts willing to help just like the users here with home automation!
Half the battle is finding the Place(forum) to ask your questions! ;)

It is best to know how (what to start with) be for you start! It will save you money in the long run! ;)
 As many users here say," you can never have to much info!" ;) :D ;D

Title: Re: Security for Remote Places
Post by: Tuicemen on September 24, 2008, 02:12:39 PM

Just a bit of an update:
I added an new pure sine wave inverter to the house and 8 more pannels so I have moved the DS7000 off DC and on to AC this will provide a little more security in case for some wild reason my Solar bank fails! :' I now have the 9V battery installed in the DS7000!
Running the DS7000 for years with DC I have no fear of the 9V battery not doing its job (as long as I remember to keep a fresh one installed  :' )!

>!