X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: RCaddict on August 18, 2007, 06:38:33 PM
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OK, I complained about X10 stuff and even put them to trash for very brief period. But at Ebay prices I couldn't resist so pull them back and set to work. Major problem is Mosion sensors. Without sensitivity adjustment they always give false alarms during day time mostly when cars passing by even at distance. I was comparing them to my reliable Zenith sensors and saw one major disparity. X10 sensors are always mounted horizontally since they do not have a adjustable mounting base like other expensive sensors. So I made simple ball & socket mount with my son's old Lego pieces. ( new Lego stuff has lots of ball & socket joints) and mount it high about 8ft (recommended height for Zenith) looking down at about 30 degrees. Wallah! no false alarms whole day. May be too early to celebrate but I thought I will share a good news. ;D
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Thank you for sharing your findings. X10 does have one motion sensor that pivots down; but it is slightly different than most. The DM10A Rex-10 motion sensor can send a standard on signal but never sends an off. It also sends extra data a Robo Dog console; that starts barking like a big dog or so they claim is sounds like.
It is much larger than the standard one most have seen and uses 4 AA cells for power. Has the Black and Red dials to set the address. It also sends the Dusk Dawn On Off at motion address +1
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Strange you mention RoboDog. I really like that concept of barking dog and lights coming on inside. Infact I need this sensor working for my pet :D project, my own robodog! Load dog sound to digital recording module from RS, couple with old PC amplified speaker triggered by appliance module! Will post more data when it is ready!
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Not so lucky!!!! Wind picked up today and big tree near motion sensor went wild and sensor went wild too. EagleEye could not differentiate between moving tree branches and people. But my Zenith sensor sat right next to it cool and calm not giving any false signal but detected me the moment I walked out. How do they do that? ???
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I think we share a similar concept RCaddict.
I actually got the idea from TTA and dave w when they poked-fun at my Voice Announcements System (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=12729.msg70759#msg70759) (posts 14 through 20).
However.... if I am going to announce to trespassers (through a outdoor speaker system) that "activity has been detected and is being video monitored". I certainly need ROCK-SOLID detection. A series of wind, leaf, rabbit caused false triggers could cause me to not be invited to the neighbors New Year's Party.
Brian H I found a driveway reporting system that looks pretty easy to intergrate into my X10 system. It operates at 315MHz RF.... should that INTERFERE with my X10 RF?
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I think we share a similar concept RCaddict. However.... if I am going to announce to trespassers (through a outdoor speaker system) that "activity has been detected and is being video monitored".
Well, I don't think I want to do that. Any trespasser will definitely feel like breaking in to your house to get your video tape after hearing that. ;D
I was experimenting with sunglasses for my EagleEye sensor. Shelding the lens with materials that block the light but let the heat (Infrared) through. Now it is quit for few hours though tree in front still dance to the wind but it detects me quite good.
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I was experimenting with sunglasses for my EagleEye sensor. Shelding the lens with materials that block the light but let the heat (Infrared) through. Now it is quit for few hours though tree in front still dance to the wind but it detects me quite good.
Thank you RCaddict,
Reading about your motion sensor Sunglasses resulted in a good belly laugh. I've needed one all week.
Some how I can just picture you positioning the sunglasses to the background of "I wear my sunglasses at night" (Corey Hart '80's).
But seriously, do you need the motion monitoring during the day? I've found that using the sensors in "dark only" mode makes them quite a bit less prone to false triggers.
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;D ;D ;D
Yes that was funny. You see the idea for me to keep this stuff is to have FUN!
I can afford to experiment with knowing if they messed up it cost me only few bucks. Good learning tool and I like to learn. It is more reliable at night but I am not happy with what I got type ;D
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I tried blinders for my EagleEye.... I made it from a writeable CD case.
Even [when] placed away from the leafs, shielded from the sun, and pointing at open sky..... I got false triggers during the day.
As far as daytime detection and deterrent.... most breakins occur in the morning... about the time when the intruder should have been in home-room. Maybe I need to work on the announcement verbage.
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You see the idea for me to keep this stuff is to have FUN!
I can afford to experiment with knowing if they messed up it cost me only few bucks. Good learning tool and I like to learn. It is more reliable at night but I am not happy with what I got type.
I absolutely applaud that attitude (experimenting, learning, and having fun).
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Cool contraption Dave X10 L really cool. 8)
But if you read this article http://www.edcheung.com/automa/ms14a.htm you will see this sensors do not have advance software which could have solved the problem rather rely on primitive hadware to detect the movement. So whatever way you tried to shield the sensor it will produce false triggers only reduce the frequency. I thought of three ways to overcome this and going about it in that order.
1. Avoid looking at the warm sky which produce false thermal variations which I already did by pivot mount.
2. Filter all other sources except infrared energy which I am testing now
3. Reprogram the PIC which I will attempt if all else fail. It is fun to write the code but unfortunately I don't have time to do it from scratch which is the case because existing program is protected.
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My SmartDog ;)
Smart because he does not bark at wind! ;D
Didn't have much time so I decided to do this with stuff in my junk box in 15min. Created longer MP3 file, loaded to old MP3 player set it to repeat, hooked it to old computer speaker powered by ac adapter. Plugged whole thing to X10 module activated by my IR filtered EagleEye (no false alarms since mod.) Set it up near front door to greet visitors with friendly bark 24/7 ;D
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My SmartDog ;)
GREAT JOB!!!! RCaddict!!!! Finally a replacement for the RoboDog. I found that VERY Helpful!
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My SmartDog ;)
GREAT JOB!!!! RCaddict!!!! Finally a replacement for the RoboDog. I found that VERY Helpful!
Yes indeed! ;D Nice pic's too! 8)
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Thanks guys, but I have unexpected problem! My kids love the SmarDdog and run in front of the sensor all day to make it bark. That make my wife go mad and she want it put to sleep. ;D
EagleEye sensor experiment going well. I had false scare today turned out to be a bad battery. According to article bellow it there are so many factors effecting the performance of the sensor including quality of the lens ability to filter through human body radiation.
How Sensors work http://home.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=question238.htm&url=http://www.glolab.com/pirparts/infrared.html
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GREAT JOB!!!! RCaddict!!!! Finally a replacement for the RoboDog. I found that VERY Helpful!
Great, now my RoboDog just mopes and cries when triggered, after hearing that he has a replacement.
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So what is the red material you have put on the lens?
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It is some kind of thin plastic that act as IR pass through filter. Same type covering remote IR lamp I guess. I got it from a friend while back when I built IR remote control for my indoor RC planes. But I don't know what IR band it pass through. Motion sensor lens supposed to be permeable to IR band generated by human body. This is not a very good idea in the long run because moisture accumulation possibility between lens and plastic layer. But it virtually eliminate false alarm during mid day. That make me very suspicious of the original lens material. It supposed to do this job! :-\
I am trying to learn about this stuff here. I dint think I will find easy solution to fix this. Motion sensors are very complicated marrage between hardware and software. Sensor has to be designed for its intended accuracy and reliability. This sensor seems to have nighther. But I can't complain I paid $15 for 3pack at Ebay! ;D
I really like Zenith sensor. It is fabulous bargain at $17 but they work with only few Zenith switches. After working with reliable motion sensors it is really irritating to work with this. X10 should have reliable motion sensors. How can they sell this as driveway alarms. Alarm will be chiming all day!!!! ::) I hope security sensors are more reliable !
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Motion sensors are very complicated marrage between hardware and software. Sensor has to be designed for its intended accuracy and reliability. This sensor seems to have nighther. But I can't complain I paid $15 for 3pack at Ebay! ;D
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X10 should have reliable motion sensors. How can they sell this as driveway alarms. Alarm will be chiming all day!!!! ::)
I would gladly pay $50 for a good X10 RF compatible motion detector. If X10 Pro line of products was really that, a $50 motion detector would have been an excellent addition to the Pro line.
From what I have read, the best are a mixture of techniques, since no one technique is perfect under all conditions.
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Yes, I would do that too considering the time I have spent testing this things.
After few days testing I am almost certain these are nothing but repackaged indoor sensors. After side by side comparison with Zenith sensors they both perform equally well indoors but outdoors X10 sensor only detect moving heat source. It does not differentiate between size, type or the rate of movement of the object other than fixed delay of few second after detection of each movement. Today technology exist using software and hardware to differentiate the size, rate of movement and identify the type of object by IR radiation band. Yes they will cost more but not more than advertised price of X10 sensor. :-\
Picture worth 1000 words!
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Now the good stuff!
Sensor work pretty well indoors day or night and out doors in backyard during night.
Daytime shadows created by trees swing in the wind, reflections of sunlight from cars even at distance and night time heat from hot car engines are the worst cases.
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I had mentioned this once before in a post.
At my step-daughter's place, there is NO light switch at the backdoor, which she regularly uses. I put an EagleEye BETWEEN her backdoor and the stormdoor. I set the codes to turn on a hallway light that lights her path both in and out, as well as alerts her to any activity at her backdoor.
Because the motion sensors can't "see" through the glass windows in the doors, it doesn't (can't) detect motion on ether side of ether door.
This setup has worked flawlessly for about a year.
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Good idea.
That's what I am beginning to realize too. Once we understood the limitation of this sensor we can overcome them by carefully placing them in the right places. Since they are cheep multiple sensors can be used to get desired result.
I mounted one on the ceiling at the main door outside looking directly down. This gave the sensor wide vision covering the entrance area and no view of the access road 30 feet away. This is the only remote door chime configuration that didn't chime at midnight. :-\
We need to share the good sensor placement ideas that worked which will be very helpful to us.
I hope more people will post their working sensor arrangements here!
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We need to share the good sensor placement ideas that worked which will be very helpful to us.
I hope more people will post their working sensor arrangements here!
I use stick-on Velcro on the back of my sensors. It keeps them "spaced" from aluminum siding (which can drown-out signal) and makes batteries and re-programming easy. Not fun to change batteries and re-program while on a ladder.
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I use stick-on Velcro on the back of my sensors. It keeps them "spaced" from aluminum siding (which can drown-out signal) and makes batteries and re-programming easy. Not fun to change batteries and re-program while on a ladder.
It seems you mount sensor flat on siding high up may be not the best arrangement. If you look at sensor specs except security sensor all others has 60deg vertical and 90 deg horizontal vision from respective axis. Only security sensor is designed to look down. So if you mount all the others horizontally up on the wall they are looking at the sky mostly. It is better to tilt them at least 30-45deg downward to get best results.
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This is the real thing. Radar activated WOW!
Anybody seen one of these in action ?
http://www.tbotech.com/electronicwatchdog.htm
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Hi guys,
I realize this is an old thread but rather than starting a new one and being redirected or referencing this thread, I thought I'd just post here. I hope that's okay.
Anyway, I actually have the ActiveEye (MS16A) sensors and they were working fine for the first few days. Now, they are triggering false alarms during the day due to .... bright sunlight. All sensors are under the roof eave so they are never in the sun. Their field of view however do cover areas that are lit by the sun.
Unfortunately, there is no escaping the sun where we are. The sun will simply laugh at me for any attempts at sensor strategic placement or positioning. :(
I'm also not too keen on doing minor surgery on it: http://www.edcheung.com/automa/ms14a.htm
So, has there been any new "fixes" submitted to address the false alarms due to light/heat sensitivity from the sun?
Would appreciate your help.
r,
eagle