X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: Brandt on March 10, 2010, 02:51:29 PM
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I'm interested in automating the thermostat, a/c and furnace. How do I get started? What do I need?
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I don't know how far you want to go with this, but if you are looking to stay with X10 for the limited control that it gives, you can get the X10 thermostat setback controller. I cannot give any information on how well they work or not as I have never tried one. If you want to get a little more elaborate, you will need some type of comunicating thermostat. The one I have installed is an RCS-TR40 thermostat that I picked up on ebay for just under $60.00. The TR40 has been replaced with the TR60, but if you can find a TR40, yo may be able to get it at a reasonable price. When I bought mine back in October, the TR40s were going for a typical buy it now on ebay for $175.00, so the price I paid was a steal. It runs on an RS485 serial line which I have a cat5 line to my HA PC. I know they also have ones that run on Z-Wave and a few other protocols. RCS (Residential Control Systems) is a good manufacturer for a few different kinds of thermostats.
My software RemoteWatch X10 has the capability of monitoring an RCS TR40, and displaying the temp and all the LED indicators on the unit. It may even work for the TR60 as I am sure the protocols are similar if not the same just with other added features. I do not as of yet have the ability to control the thermostat through the software yet, but that is a feature that I have on the list of TO-DOs for the software.
Hope some of my babble helps.
Dan Bemowski
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Is this the setback you're referring to?
http://www.x10.com/products/x10_th2807.htm
sounds like a kludge....
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http://www.smarthome.com/3045B/X10-Bi-Directional-HVAC-System-RCS-TXB-16/p.aspx
would'a been my guess at what you're after.
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http://www.smarthome.com/3045B/X10-Bi-Directional-HVAC-System-RCS-TXB-16/p.aspx
would'a been my guess at what you're after.
not for that price....
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http://www.smarthome.com/3045B/X10-Bi-Directional-HVAC-System-RCS-TXB-16/p.aspx
would'a been my guess at what you're after.
not for that price....
me neither.
don't think I have enuff faith in X-10 to control my HVAC either... :)
For internal temperatures, I have two cheap USB thermometers and the Ws2308 weather station up stairs that shows inside and outside temps.
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http://www.smarthome.com/3045B/X10-Bi-Directional-HVAC-System-RCS-TXB-16/p.aspx
would'a been my guess at what you're after.
This unit looks exactly like the RCS TS-16 (http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/RCS/Item/TS16/). They have one of these right now on ebay with a buy it now of $69.00. It is the RS485 version.
This is exactly what my TR40 unit and the new TR60 looks like:
(http://www.smarthome-products.com/images/Product/medium/1282.jpg)
The RCS TR40 and TR16 cone in two parts. The have the WDU (Wall Display unit) and the control unit. Both of these models have the same control unit, the only difference is that the TR16 WDU only offers basic control of the system. The TR40 WDU has more advanced functions.
The other nice thing about these units is that they are expandable to do multi-zone heating control if you would chose to go that route in the future.
If you can find someone selling the TR40 under $100.00 I would snatch it up. It is a discontinued unit, but it is good. Just make sure you are getting the whole setup and not just the WDU as they would many times sell just the WDUs for a cheaper price.
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don't think I have enuff faith in X-10 to control my HVAC either... :)
We have virtually 100% X10 reliability, but I still wouldn't use it for primary HVAC control. Here I went with a multi-zone Carrier/Bryant system that was quite expensive, but has worked flawlessly for 6 years. I do use X10 to control auxiliary ventilation and dampers that shut down additional portions of the house at night.
For a single zone system, I would recommend one of the programmable thermostats available from all the major home improvement centers. We used several of them at our last house. They were easy to program, and did the job.
Jeff
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<snip>
don't think I have enuff faith in X-10 to control my HVAC either... :)
<snip>
You're right that X10 should not be used as primary HVAC control, but with the RCS thermostats it's the thermostat which controls the HVAC, just like any other thermostat. X10 is used only to remotely change or read the settings, or read the temperature.
Note that software which supports the old style Preset Dim commands is required for full functionality of the RCS X10 thermostats - ActiveHome Pro is not up to the task.
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Note that software which supports the old style Preset Dim commands is required for full functionality of the RCS X10 thermostats - ActiveHome Pro is not up to the task.
luckily I use Heyu
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I recommend you don't try to cheap your HVAC system. Stick with a well known brand like HONEYWELL but go through a reputable contractor. Honeywell has wireless thermostats that are not sold at the hardware stores. Also, the models sold at Home Depot and Lowes, etc. are the ones that did not meet " INDUSTRY STANDARDS" and won't be warrantied. Good Luck!
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Stick with a well known brand like HONEYWELL but go through a reputable contractor.
The three Honeywell programmable themostats I installed at our last house worked very well. They came from either Lowes or HomeDepot.
Jeff
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From what i've seen, hvac control can be pretty granular as far as multiple baffles connected to a hvac controller, and remote thermostats in every room communicating with a master thermostat...I think I would like to be there eventually but for now I would like a second thermostat upstairs, and be able to turn on/off the ac/heat from both locations...also preferably x10 ready so I can tie it in to my home automation software for monitoring.
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From what i've seen, hvac control can be pretty granular as far as multiple baffles connected to a hvac controller, and remote thermostats in every room communicating with a master thermostat...I think I would like to be there eventually but for now I would like a second thermostat upstairs, and be able to turn on/off the ac/heat from both locations...
The RCS line of HVAC controllers are flexible and expandable. You can put in the main controller, and later down the line if you want to install a zone controller and some dampers, you can. As far as being able to turn the HVAC on and off from two locations, that might be hard with standard thermostats (I could be wrong).
also preferably x10 ready so I can tie it in to my home automation software for monitoring.
I forget, what software do you use for your HA setup? is it AHP? If so, you probably wont be able to do much for monitoring temps from your thermostats.
Dan B.
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Also, the models sold at Home Depot and Lowes, etc. are the ones that did not meet " INDUSTRY STANDARDS" and won't be warrantied.
Are you a HVAC contractor?
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From what i've seen, hvac control can be pretty granular as far as multiple baffles connected to a hvac controller, and remote thermostats in every room communicating with a master thermostat...I think I would like to be there eventually but for now I would like a second thermostat upstairs, and be able to turn on/off the ac/heat from both locations...
The RCS line of HVAC controllers are flexible and expandable. You can put in the main controller, and later down the line if you want to install a zone controller and some dampers, you can. As far as being able to turn the HVAC on and off from two locations, that might be hard with standard thermostats (I could be wrong).
also preferably x10 ready so I can tie it in to my home automation software for monitoring.
I forget, what software do you use for your HA setup? is it AHP? If so, you probably wont be able to do much for monitoring temps from your thermostats.
Dan B.
I'm using Heyu so anything is possible ;)
Those RCS units look good especially the RCS-TXB16 (I think it was), and yes expandability is key
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If you have not downloaded the RCS X10 compatible manuals and protocol data yet:
http://www.resconsys.com/products/stats/x10.htm
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The three Honeywell programmable themostats I installed at our last house worked very well. They came from either Lowes or HomeDepot.
Jeff
I'm just sayin' they won't have any warranty if they fail. The big box stores don't carry the wireless model, either.
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Are you a HVAC contractor?
Yes.
I've been in the trade for 26 years now. Just please be sure to stay with "known" brands. Home Depot sells a brand with three letters, the last one being "x", that may only work for a year if it works at all! B:(
I've installed a "Honeywell YTH6320R1015 WIRELESS FOCUS PRO" on my home and I love it, except it uses "RedLink" technology that I don't know how to use with AHP. Someday I'm hoping it will work with PC companion!!
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I pretty much have my eye on the RCS TXB16 as its compatible with my x10 software (Heyu)
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I pretty much have my eye on the RCS TXB16 as its compatible with my x10 software (Heyu)
Pomp, if you get this and decide further down the line you want to upgrade, the TS40 and TS60 wall display units (WDUs) should work with this setup. These WDUs have many more features than the TS16 WDU that comes with this system.
It looks as if this unit has the same or similar control module as the one that I have and just uses a TW523 X10 interface (http://www.x10.com/products/x10_tw523.htm) with it. Seeing that, I may get a TW523 for mine and see if I can get it to work.
Dan B.
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Home Depot sells a brand with three letters, the last one being "x", that may only work for a year if it works at all! B:(
Around here - it's Lowes that carries the L*x branded 'stats.
Home Depot has Honeywell and RiteTemp.
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I ended up winning a RCS TXB16 off ebay. I will keep you posted about how the install, setup, and config in Heyu goes.
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I ended up winning a RCS TXB16 off ebay. I will keep you posted about how the install, setup, and config in Heyu goes.
Yes, please. I use Heyu and am looking at automating my HVAC as well.
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Well i've done the bench tests so far on the txb16 unit i received off ebay and all is well.
Now I feel I need to learn a bit about HVAC before installing it...after reading the manual I'm so confused.
on the first floor in the middle of the house is the thermostat on the wall, and in the closet next to it is a weatherking (furnace i assume), and on the side of the house is a big fan type box pointing upward...no clue about HVAC as you can see...
hope you can help
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The outside box with the big fan. Maybe an Air Conditioner unit. That is if you have a furnace in the cellar and not just an outside heat pump that does AC and Heat.
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Well i've done the bench tests so far on the txb16 unit i received off ebay and all is well.
Now I feel I need to learn a bit about HVAC before installing it...after reading the manual I'm so confused.
on the first floor in the middle of the house is the thermostat on the wall, and in the closet next to it is a weatherking (furnace i assume), and on the side of the house is a big fan type box pointing upward...no clue about HVAC as you can see...
hope you can help
Configurations usually vary by geography.
When I lived in Dallas, my "furnance" was nothing more than a glorified hair dryer mounted in the attic. The A/C compressor was the big box unit thing outside the house. It'll have a big fan on the top, and should have two large pipes coming out of it and heading into the house.
My inlaws live in South Texas - and their heating unit is in the closet - like yours.
Here in Colorado, the furnace is in the basement.
The A/C unit, if you have one will almost always resemble what I've described: a box outside, 3x3' or bigger, with a large fan on the top. Unless you have a newer split A/C system. Following those pipes (if you can) or following a big gas line (if your furnace is gas powered) usually leads you to the unit.
I dunno what Heat Pumps look like! :)
Hope that helps...
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I'm in Southern California, where there is moderate weather all year long
The 'thing' outside is a weatherking rcu 900+
The furnace inside is also a weatherking
I opened up the thermostat to get the wiring, can someone decode this:
w1 - white wire
w2 - none
G - Blue wire
Rc & Rh - Red wire connected together
B - None
O - None
Y2 - None
Y1 - Yellow Wire
(http://i42.tinypic.com/727lzk.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2iw0oqc.jpg)
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I have a question before you get too far into this. Does the unit you bought accept X10 commands?
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Yes:
http://www.resconsys.com/products/stats/x10.htm
Scroll down and read the x10 protocol manual
I updated an issue in domus.Link (heyu frontend) to add support for this:
http://code.google.com/p/domuslink/issues/detail?id=35
...although its not scheduled yet..
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Brandt; You beat me to the punch by maybe 30 seconds. :)%
Yes the TBX16 can do X10 signaling.
http://www.resconsys.com/products/stats/x10.htm
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Bandit;
my name is Brandt.
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OK guess I can't read either. ???
Will correct and remember.
Sorry corrected.
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Well i've done the bench tests so far on the txb16 unit i received off ebay and all is well.
Who did you get it from? I search Ebay for txb16 and it comes back with nothing.
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you gotta have your feelers out there...you can setup saved searches on ebay, and it will email you when someone puts one up for sale
keywords: "rcs thermostat"
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Brandt,
What model is the TCM that came with your unit? I am guessing that yours has an RJ11 jack to plug in a TW523 or a PSC05 for the X10 side of things. I think that the TCM that I have with mine can handle a TW523, but I am not sure. If my TCM is the same model, I will try out the X10 control. I currently have it wired for serial RS485 control, but would like some X10 control if possible.
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The board TCU is a TXB16 Rev D....they are now on Rev P, but it has a rj-11 jack and a dc jack for 12vdc for bench tests, the WDU is a TS16
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Is this it? http://cgi.ebay.com/RCS-TU16-UPB-Home-Automation-Thermostat-New-/260501948213?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca7204735#ht_543wt_1165 Looks like the same thing but has a different model number. Is there anything else you need to buy besides this to get it to work with X10?
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The sales page indicates it uses the UPB automation protocol.
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The sales page indicates it uses the UPB automation protocol.
And UPB is NOT X10 compatible!
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Well i've done the bench tests so far on the txb16 unit i received off ebay and all is well.
Who did you get it from? I search Ebay for txb16 and it comes back with nothing.
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=rcs%20txb16&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wf
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After looking at my control module for my thermostat, I noticed something. It appears that RCS makes different modules for different protocols. Mine happens to be an RS485 serial module where as Brandt's module is for X10. It appears that the same circuit board is use for the RS485, X10 and UPB models. My guess is that the indicated microprocessor chip is programmed for whatever protocol the module is being used for. My unit as seen below is missing the RJ11 jack and probably some other components used for X10 and UPB power line interfaces.
(http://www.phpwebscripting.com/phpwebsite/images/rcs_rs485_tcm.JPG)
I would bet if Brandt looked at his board, it would probably look similar. The processor chip on mine is marked with HFRP3052 I would bet that Brandt's would probably start with HFXP**** with the R and X being for Rs485 and X10 respectively.
What I am getting at with all of this is that if you want a thermostat with X10 control, you will need to buy one with the X10 capability built in. I am sure that if I wanted to use my unit with X10, I could keep my TS40 wall display unit and just get the X10 capable control module.
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My board looks nothing like that as it's an older revision D powered by a 12vdc wall wart. Ill take a pic tomorrow I'm too tired right now..
Anyway I tried installing it tonight and am getting myself confused by all the wires. Hopefully somebody can make sense of this:
There is a red and white pair coming out of the ceiling which I assume is going to the 'fan box' outside. On the original terminal strip on the gas heater system; red was connected to C and White was connected to Y.
The other wire's coming from the original thermostat as described a couple posts above were connected to the terminal strip on the gas heater as follows:
R - Red Wire
W - White Wire
G - Blue Wire
C - Red wire (From the pair mentioned above)
Y - White wire (From the pair above), and Yellow wire
So I got the wall unit wired to the control unit ok, but Now I am having trouble connecting these six wires to the control unit.
On the Rev D TXB16 the connections are as follows:
Rc (red cooling) - The red wire from the ceiling (fan box)
Rh (red heating) - red wire going to R on the terminal strip
W1 (heat stage 1 call) - White wire going to W on the terminal strip
G (fan call) - Green wire going to G on the terminal strip
Y1 (compressor stage 1 call) - Blue wire going to Y on the terminal strip
O (W2) (heat stage 2 call) - Not used?
Y2 (compressor stage 2 call) - Not Used?
If the red wire from the ceiling was originally connected to C (common) should it be connected to Rc on the TCU?
If the white wire from the ceiling was originally connected to Y (compressor) should it be connected to Y1 or Y2 on the TCU?
EDIT:
Ahh the peace in the house when staying up late and working on something.
I got it working. I ended up leave the red and white wires from the fan box outside connected to their original place on the terminal strip and using the jumper between Rc and Rh on the TCU that is suggested on single transformer systems
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The HVAC control circuit is really very simple:
Red - Common
White - Heat
Blue - Cool
Green - Fan/Blower
If you close connection between common and any of the three you will turn on that action. With that in mind it is simple to control with X10 modules. There are many options, but if you are wanting to DIY with X10, with a few of the Door/Window Sensors (DS10A) and a few of the Universal Modules (UM506), it should be a snap.
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I was just informed by the RCS tech support that the TS60 wall display unit is not compatible with the TXB16 Thermostat control unit.
However, you can add a zone controller using baffles to create zones to the TXB16:
http://www.resconsys.com/products/zonepanels/2%20and%204%20Zone.htm
and for the RS485 guy:
http://www.resconsys.com/products/zonepanels/ZCVx.htm