X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: Steevo on April 07, 2014, 10:49:16 AM
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You might remember this thread where I got great help here with macros.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=28675.msg160651#msg160651
That's all working great! Thanks.
The CM11A is running autonomously. Perfect. I push 1 on, the CM11A starts the macro and turns on unit 2, then turns it off after a delay. All automatic.
What I am working on now is a little expansion of this.
I can't send X10 commands to start the macro reliably from the other end of the house from where the CM11A is. It used to work, but now it doesn't. In any case, I want a button in the bathroom. Preferably without having to plug it in since my bathroom doesn't have nearly enough plugs.
So here's what I have. This stuff was all in my archives of X10 stuff.
I have a stick on RF transmitter, SS15A. I have an RR501 RF receiver.
The SS15A can control the RR501, it clicks properly for housecode G unit 1.
I understood the RR501 would receive RF from the SS15A and send the housecode G unit 1 on which starts my macro.
But I have not had that work yet.
Is there something I don't understand?
Can the RR501 which is working send the code to the CM11A to start the macro?
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Yes the RR501 can receive the X10 RF command from the SS15A and send a power line signal over the power lines. I am not a CM11A macro expert but I believe it should be triggered by a power line command.
Try the RR501 in the same location as the CM11A. If it works there. You have a power line noise or signal sucker issue.
The fact that you could send signal to the CM11A at one time and not now. Is also an indication something has changed in the home and is effecting the power line signals.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/uncle.htm
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Heh.
I am not trying to solve the problem sending X10 powerline commands from the other end of the house, or at least not on this thread.
At this moment, the RR501 is plugged into the CM11A socket.
So they are as close as possible.
I am trying to figure out why the CM11A macro does not trigger when the RF command is sent and received by the RR501. Since it clicks I know it's being received. The CM11A macros are indeed triggered by the powerline command sent from the adjacent miniconsole.
As a test I pushed the slide switch on the RR501 to 5-8 and sent the command with the wireless pad. The RR501 does not click and the CM11A still does not start it's macro. The module in the adjacent garage does not click. It does click when I turn it on with the miniconsole, it does click on macro command from the CM11A.
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Thanks for the added information.
I didn't see your indicating the RR501 was in the same outlet as the CM11A.
So an Active Home user may have better information for you.
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I am trying to figure out why the CM11A macro does not trigger when the RF command is sent and received by the RR501. Since it clicks I know it's being received. The CM11A macros are indeed triggered by the powerline command sent from the adjacent miniconsole.
When an RF command is sent to the RR501 relay address, the RR501 first actuates the relay and only afterwards sends the related command to the powerline. It's possible that the RF section is working (i.e. the "click" of the relay) but that the PLC section is not. Can you set up a test using an unused address (e.g. G2 on your SS15A) and a lamp module on that address to test whether the RR501 PLC section is relaying commands to the powerline.
The module in the adjacent garage does not click.
What is this other "clicking" module in the garage?
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I'll set up such a test.
The module in the garage is a hot water circulating pump. Turning that on and off again after a delay was the whole purpose of this exercise.
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I set up a lamp on a lamp module as suggested, on unit 3.
I can turn it on and off with the miniconsole. So it's working.
I tried sending commands for on and off on the third rocker on my wireless keypad.
No response.
The RR501 is new, I just took it out of it's box a couple days ago. It does not seem to be sending plc.
Hmm. I imagine I have another of those, I will have to look for it.
Well, I looked and I found two alarm consoles, but no RR501s.
What do the alarm consoles do? Can one of those replace the RR501?
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The other thing I could do is crack open the RR501 and take a look see.
It's probably unusual for those to just not work, I suspect.
I am reading some hardware component level troubleshooting on that.
As you can imagine most are addressing component failures. Some heat related.
Nothing that would affect a new module like this one. So I might have bad manufacturing.
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X10 Alarm Consoles also act as a transceiver.
As a test. You may want to temporarily use one of them in place of the RR501 and see if the SS15A will then work.
Set the security consoles House Code Dial to the one you are using. Unit Code is not too important as it sets the Unit number of a lamp module it flashes during a alarm or indicated arming delay is in progress.
I have seen at least three different schematics for RR501s so how yours is manufactured may depends on its age. I have real new ones that I have not seen documented.
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The other thing I could do is crack open the RR501 and take a look see.
It's probably unusual for those to just not work, I suspect.
While unusual, it may be due to a defective component (e.g. capacitor, resistor) which may give no visual clue. and, as Brian notes, there have been several versions over the years so that might complicate your troubleshooting.
Brian's suggestion to temporarily use one of the security consoles will help verify that the RR501 is defective.
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Yeah, I'll have to try that test with a security console.
I was reading the schematic I found, I am kind of interested in someday scoping pin 18 on the PIC while sending commands.
That day may never come.
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I was reading the schematic I found, I am kind of interested in someday scoping pin 18 on the PIC while sending commands.
First, check for the ZC input on pin 17.
And, BE CAREFUL!!! The electronics are not isolated from the mains (X10 uses the 120V hot side as electronic ground.) so there's a shock hazard. You might end up with the case of your scope at 120VAC.
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I replaced the RR501 with a security console.
That all works.
It seems I have a non-function PLC portion of a brand new RR501.
So I may take a peek and see if I can identify a problem.
The security console is now performing the needed function.
So I will just leave that there for the time being.
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I was reading the schematic I found, I am kind of interested in someday scoping pin 18 on the PIC while sending commands.
First, check for the ZC input on pin 17.
Hm. What would I be looking for?
What does that zero crossing signal have?
I imagine a 60 Hz signal, right? Or maybe 120 Hz?
Do you suspect a bad or badly soldered R38 or D10?
The schematic is here:
http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/RR501_Schematic_vH.pdf
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I am glad to read you narrowed it down the the RR501 and the security console is working for now.
I am going to look a my later RR501 as I believe the power supply area does not match the schematic you linked to.
There was a mention of the later revision RR501 in this thread.
The main power supply capacitor is now 470uf 50VDC and mine measured 40 volts on the capacitor.
There are two Zener Diodes in series to get the 40 VDC.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=23313.0
The later PCB is shown in photos in this I want to convert to 220VAC web page.
http://hack4life.pbworks.com/w/page/30349128/Converting-a-RR501-X10-RF-Transceiver-to-220v
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What does that zero crossing signal have?
...
Do you suspect a bad or badly soldered R38 or D10?
The ZC signal is just the powerline 60Hz massaged into a squarewave. It is needed to sync the PLC signal to ZC. (See explanations of X10 PLC signals.)
I do not suspect any specific component - it's just that ZC is needed to trigger the PLC signal so it's a logical starting point for troubleshooting. Otherwise, you might suspect the PIC if there's no PLC output when the lack of a ZC trigger is the real culprit.
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Brian, that RR501 is much newer than mine. Everything I have, I have had for years and years. Heh.
I have been hacking a long time.
I gotta take mine apart. I will scope that zero crossing signal first.
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The one I am using is an Date Code 02F23 and matches the schematic you linked to.
It is the one I found the 18 volt zener gets very warm and the board was turning dark. Solder also looked poor. I replaced it with two 9 volt zeners diodes in series and changed the main power supply capacitor. Repairing those parts corrected it flakiness.
The newer one is a spare and I bought it when X10 was showing early signs of supply problems. I got it from a independent X10 dealer when the prices where still cut throat.
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I took the RR501 apart, and it sure appears to be the one in the schematic.
Date code says 6J40, not sure what that means. 40th week, I imagine. 6J might be 2006? Nah, that sounds too new.
I haven't done anything to it yet except examination.
One thing I did notice that seems interesting is the antenna is not connected to the board at all.
It seems to be inductively coupled, which seems odd for a receiver.
Part of their UL, I guess.
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Yes the antenna is capacitively coupled for isolation.
TM751 is the same.
Both have the incoming Line Power for their common on the PCB.
6J40 is more like 1996 or 1986.
The two digit years started in 2000. Like 06J40 would be 40th week of 2006.
I have some real old BSR X10-HD243s with a 2J42 on them. :o
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One thing I did notice that seems interesting is the antenna is not connected to the board at all.
It seems to be inductively coupled, which seems odd for a receiver.
As Brian noted, it's capacitively (and very poorly) coupled. As I warned earlier, the electronics are not isolated from the mains, necessitating galvanic isolation for the antenna. See...
- http://davehouston.org/ImproveRR501.htm