X10 Community Forum
🛡Home Security => Problems and Troubleshooting => Topic started by: cscjjd on February 01, 2019, 03:53:12 PM
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Hi,
my system has been installed and working for many years. Recently both of my PowerHorns (one PSH01 and one SH10A) have quit sounding. I use these with an SC1200. The two PowerHorns were plugged into different circuits (outlets) and moving them has not fixed the problem.
I know the alarm is activated because the SC1200 still dials out however, it now dials out too soon - the Entry Delay is set for 23 seconds but dialing starts at 8 to 10 seconds. (Dialing also starts 8 to 10 seconds after the alarm is tripped by a motion sensor).
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
JD
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Does the security light(s) that you have assigned to the SC1200 flash on an off during the alarm? Also, if you have a controller with All Lights On/All Units Off assigned to the same house code as the sirens, do they activate when you rock the All Lights On/All Units Off switch on and off?
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Hello Arizona,
I don't presently have any lights connected but I do have some light modules that I've used in the past. I will try to re-connect these to see if they activate but I don't have much experience with them. Also, it may be a few days before I have time to locate and connect them.
Thanks for your input,
JD
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It sounds like you may have gotten a power surge if both PowerHorns stopped working at the same time.
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You can test the sirens with a simple on then off (then on, off, on, off, on, off.... it takes 4 cycles if I remember correctly) using something like a palmpad. I always test things with a separate TM751 Wireless Transceiver set on the A house code (I only use A for testing).
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In my tests of a early production SC1200. Some revisions of the PH508/PSH01 Large Powerhorns did not work correctly. As the trigger cycle of On and Off signals didn't trigger them. I did not do any tests with the SH10A/PSH02 Small Powerhorn.
The SC1200 has two Security Light Code addresses. The one set in the options menu and the next Unit Code higher.
I used B1 in my tests. The console sent a cycle of B1,B2,BOn-B1,B2,BOff. Some Date Code Large Powerhorns did not trigger other maybe a occasional squeak or sounded for a few seconds.
If you have an XTB-IIR. I had to set High Command Storm Threshold . The constant stream of X10 commands triggered it to shut down. Thinking it was a signal storm on the power lines.
Since yours did work OK something may have changed.
The simple command cycle HA Dave pointed out. Should trigger your Large Powerhorns. A cycle of All Lights On, All Units Off to the House code being tested. Should also trigger the Large Powerhorns. The not as commonly used All Lights Off seemed to also work for me. In place of the All Units Off.
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Wow, great input everybody...
After reading your suggestions, I tried sending a series of on/off signals using a SH624 Remote Control but did not get any response from either PowerHorn.
My next step will be to find my lamp modules (which have not been plugged in for a year or so) and see if they respond appropriately or not.
I will find them sometime this weekend and report the results.
Thanks!
JD
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One more tip.
If the Lamp Module is the Soft Start version. Where the light ramps On and Off. The earlier version. Ramp On and Off even with the Security Console sending the On Off sequence. The later revision ones. Ramp On and Off with normal commands like from a remote but start flashing On and off with no ramp. During a security console sending the cycles and doing the security light flash described in the manual.
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OK, some discoveries over the weekend...
1. using a lamp module, I found that it responds only if it is on the same circuit as the 1200. It used to work on other circuits in the house.
2. the SH10A powerhorn also responds only if it is on the same circuit as the 1200 and it no longer respects the Entry Delay but instead begins sounding immediately upon a door being opened. It used to work on other circuits in the house.
3. the PSH01 powerhorn does not respond on any circuit.
I am almost ready to conclude that the PSH01 is broken, burned out, unrecoverable.
Anyone have a theory on why the other devices now have to be on the same circuit when previously they did not (no changes have been made to the electrical system inside of the house) or a workaround?
Thanks,
JD
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Have you replaced any appliances? Added any charging stations for phones or laptops? I had to put a switch on my new washer which kills the power to it as it has electronics that were preventing the x10 signals from crossing to the other circuit leg.
Also, you say the SH10A would sound during the Entry Delay or after an alarm trip after the 30 sec. grace period?
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Thanks Arizona, with further checking I've found...
1. I made a mistake in reporting that my Entry delay was being ignored (I was testing with a door sensor that was set to Min but the (console) Entry delay only works if the opened zone has its sensor set to Max).
2. The only new electronics I could think of were two new surge protectors. I've unplugged both of them but it made no difference.
So the one remaining mystery is why the powerhorn must be on the same circuit as the console when previously it did not.
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Do you have a phase coupler or X10 signal repeater in the system? To get the X10 power line signals between the two incoming power lines. It could have failed.
Your description indicate you have a noise problem, coupling problem or a signal sucker.
Is the SC1200's power supply on the same AC circuit as the computing equipment or an UPS AC input?
Jeff has a great set of X10 troubleshooting tutorials. If you have not seen them yet.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
I guess there is a remote possibility the SC1200's power supply has a bad X10 power line transmitter in it. As it supplies power to the SC1200 and sends the X10 commands back onto the power line. Do you have any X10 signal tester by chance?
X10 does sell a replacement XM19A but I would not jump on that bandwagon with out trying more tests.
Would you happen to have another X10 controller or transceiver you could try in the same location as the SC1200? To see if another X10 sender also has limited coverage.
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Do you have a phase coupler or X10 signal repeater in the system? To get the X10 power line signals between the two incoming power lines. It could have failed.
No to both.
Your description indicate you have a noise problem, coupling problem or a signal sucker.
Is the SC1200's power supply on the same AC circuit as the computing equipment or an UPS AC input?
No.
Jeff has a great set of X10 troubleshooting tutorials. If you have not seen them yet.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
This looks like a really good resource.
I guess there is a remote possibility the SC1200's power supply has a bad X10 power line transmitter in it. As it supplies power to the SC1200 and sends the X10 commands back onto the power line. Do you have any X10 signal tester by chance?
No.
X10 does sell a replacement XM19A but I would not jump on that bandwagon with out trying more tests.
Would you happen to have another X10 controller or transceiver you could try in the same location as the SC1200? To see if another X10 sender also has limited coverage.
I may be able to borrow another SC1200 in a week or two.
Thanks Brian!
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I didn't know there was an x10 signal tester? Made by x10 or third party?
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http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_ordering.htm
Jeff at JV Digital Engineering made a XTBM and XTBM-Pro. http://jvde.us/xtbm.htm
Jeff has indicated that he is not making additional assemblies or kits after what is left is sold.
Right now only the Assembled XTBM-Pro is listed as available.
The status of the rentals would have to be answered by JV Digital Engineering.
His XTB-IIR coupler repeater. That blasts an X10 signal on both phases and many of us recommend. Looks like it is still available.
There where others like the ELK ESM-1 and the Smarthome TesterLinc that are now discontinued. I suppose some auction sites my occasionally have them. Though the XTBM and XTBM-Pro have great features.
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Right now only the Assembled XTBM-Pro is listed as available.
As of this morning 2/5/19 there are only 4 left. After that no more PCBs are available unless someone else steps up to take over production.
There is one rental unit currently available, but it may go out again any day.
Jeff
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I want to thank Brian for posting the link to Jeff's troubleshooting page (see reply #11) and thank Jeff for the page itself as I found it really valuable in explaining what may have caused my problem in general. I had no idea that making a change in some completely unrelated minor piece of household electrical equipment could potentially change the functioning of X10 components. After reading the material authored by Jeff I now have some understanding of how and why this may happen.
Tracking down the specific problem causing my system's problem would potentially be easier if I had started on it immediately upon noticing the problem. Now that it has been a month or two since it started, it is more difficult to remember what electrical components (down to the level of a light bulb or a cell phone charger) were changed immediately before the problem began as one of them may be the culprit. I know now to start investigating right away.
Thanks again for all of you who made suggestions -- what a great resource this forum is.
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Finally, after all this time, I've stumbled onto the solution...
So, the problem turns out to be in the power supply for the SC1200 console. I never considered the power supply as a possibility as all other console functions have been working normally (I have been using my cell phone, which the console dials upon a tripped sensor, as an "alarm") and I'd assumed the console power supply was just that - a simple power supply, and that all other functionality was embedded in the console. Apparently however the power line signalling is part of the power supply itself (other members may have more info on this aspect).
p.s. I happened to find this after I obtained several other alarms from a friend and none of them worked either. I then happened to try my console with their power supply and voila - problem solved. I have since opened my (old) power supply and did not see anything grossly amiss but will look more closely at it when I'm sure it's safe (I am not expert at this and wanted to be sure any capacitors it might contain have time to discharge). I will report any further findings. Thanks to all!
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Yes. The SC1200 power supply wall wart.
Has the +DC, Common to the SC1200, Zero Crossing detector signal to time the SC1200's commands to the power lines and the X10 power line transmitter in it.
Four wires. Common,+DC, Zero Crossing to the SC1200 and the power line transmitter keying signal from the SC1200.
I always suspect electrolytic capacitors when I have problems with X10 and Insteon devices.
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Did some tests on a XM19A.
X10 XM19A Power Supply for an SC1200A
Winford Engineering BRK4P4C Breakout Board
Tenma 72-10410 True RMS Multimeter
Pin 1 XM19A Yellow Common
Pin 2 XM19A Green +DC To SC1200
Pin 3 XM19A White Power Line Transmitter Keying Signal From SC1200
Pin 4 XM19A Red Zero Crossing To SC1200
Pin 1 to Pin 2 DC output:
No load: 18.65VDC, Could not read any Ripple
30 Ohm load: 9.67VDC, 316DCmA, .400VAC 120Hz Ripple
20 Ohm load: 8.10VDC, 397DCmA, .446VAC 120Hz Ripple
Pin 1 to Pin 4 Zero Crossing:
Zero Crossing 60Hz Pulse.
AC Input Pins 278 Ohms
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I had the same symptom as you, and I found out that the XM19A PSU had stopped sending out the X10 codes.
After some troubleshooting on the board, very difficult because everything is terribly packed, i found two 10uF capacitors completely dried out, replaced them and then it worked.
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Dried out capacitors. Is a typical problem I run into. In X10 and other brands like Insteon. Especially their 2413S/U PLM. Switching supply but caps not well rated for a switching supply.