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[jnltech]

Hello All,

I have a Southwest Windpower Skystream 3.7 wind turbine installed. When it is generating energy, my X10 system does not work (my TED system). I know it is the wind generator because when I disconnect the generator, the X10 communications work fine. I have attempted to filter out any noise by:
1) Installing a X10 Pro XPNR across each of the 120v lines from the generator.
2) Installing a Leviton 6248 120VAC, 225 Amp Noise Filter in the sub panel where the wind generator lines wire into the house.

Neither of these solutions have made any difference.

I have found no information on filtering power generation devices internal to my main breaker panel.

Can anybody help me out with this. I do not know what to try next.

Thanks,

   Jim

[Knightrider]

Just so I can catch up, do you have a TED and X10 or just TED?

I know that TED can play havoc on X10 systems, and didn't know that they could co-exist.

Just throw a guess here, but I'd say that the X10 filters are off frequency enough as to not catch the TED communications.

I guess more info is in order.

[JeffVolp]

I know a couple of people who managed to get their X10 system to work with TED by totally isolating TED communications from the remainder of the distribution system.  One used a XPF filter to isolate the TED circuit, but I don't know what the other fellow did.

Since you also have a wind generator, its power converter is likely producing a lot of noise.  It may be simulating a sine wave with a multi-state square wave.

The XPNR is essentially a 120KHz bandpass filter.  I believe it is most effective reducing broadband noise, such as that produced by arcing brushes in universal motors.  There is no way it could deal with the high power switching noise produced by a power converter.  I also don't think the Leviton 6284 will be very effective trying to reduce that type of noise either.

Unless your power converter produces a pure sine wave, you may need to install some sort of high power low-pass filter on the converter output.

Jeff

[jnltech]

Hello,

Currently I only have the TED 5000 system. I had thought the TED communicated via the X10 protocol. My goal to to have TED and additional X10 based devices operating in my home. I guess the first problem I need to solve is the noise from the Skystream. How can I clean up this sine wave before the signal gets into my home system?

Thanks,

   Jim

[JeffVolp]

I am not familiar with different TED models.  However, the one that I looked into some time ago did not use the X10 protocol, and it caused severe interference to X10 traffic.  Moving that communication channel to an isolated circuit solved the problem.

Regarding noise from the wind turbine, you should contact the manufacturer regarding what they may have to prevent interference from their power converter.  If they don't offer a product, you will need information regarding the converter output waveform to design a custom filter.  Some converters produce a square wave, some a 3-state waveform, and others a multi-state waveform that can simulate a sine wave with some filtering.

Of course you could always build your own brute-force low-pass filter using surplus parts.  The brochure says it is 240V output.  Does it have a 3-wire connection (2 hot legs and neutral)?

If you can contact someone at the company who can give you technical information, explain that any switching noise in the first millisecond after each 60Hz zero crossing will interfere with X10 communications.

Jeff

[Charles Sullivan]

I am not familar with different TED models.  However, the one that I looked into some time ago did not use the X10 protocol, and caused severe interference to X10 traffic.  Moving that communication channel to an isolated circuit solved the problem.

The online description when the TED was originally introduced stated that it communicated over the powerline at a frequency of 130kHz and therefore "shouldn't interfere with X10".   They obviously never tested it!   I didn't find this information on their website the last time I looked.

Nowadays I think they provide instructions how to isolate the branch of the powerline serving the TED with X10 filters.

[Brian H]

Yes their troubleshooting guide now says if you find a noisy device an X10 or Smarthome filter maybe needed on the noise maker.
I also saw the 132kHz at zero crossing in the manual but no statement about coexisting with X10.
Gee that means the Insteon 131.65kHz power line signal is in BIG trouble. 

[JeffVolp]

Thinking about the wind turbine further, a simple and relatively inexpensive thing to try is to just pass the power from the turbine through two 20A X10 XPF filters.  I would use one on each hot leg.  Notching out noise in the 120KHz band may be sufficient.

Jeff

[Charles Sullivan]

Yes their troubleshooting guide now says if you find a noisy device an X10 or Smarthome filter maybe needed on the noise maker.
I also saw the 132kHz at zero crossing in the manual but no statement about coexisting with X10.
Gee that means the Insteon 131.65kHz power line signal is in BIG trouble. 

I think TED transmits once every second, which totally hogs the powerline for anything else near its frequency.

[jnltech]

Hello All,

Thanks for the replies and advice. I have tried applying the X10 based filters and have had no luck getting a good signal when the turbine is operating. I have contacted TED and they say the turbine is not their problem. I have contacted Southwest Windpower and they say their system is UL compliant, case closed. Apparently these companies are not interested in improving compatibility issues in their systems. I think Southwest Windpower is isolating a large segment of their target market by ignoring this. It looks like I am on my own for solving these problems. Buyer beware! If you have any system that communicates over your household power lines, the installation of a Skystream 3.7 will render these systems useless without further attention to the power signal coming in from the inverter built into the Skystream.

Any more advice would be very much appreciated.

Cheers,

   Jim

[JeffVolp]

I have tried applying the X10 based filters and have had no luck getting a good signal when the turbine is operating.

In an earlier post you said you used the XPNR across each 120V line from the converter.  Because that is a 120KHz bandpass filter, it would not eliminate "in-band" noise produced by the turbine's power converter.

The only economical approach that might work is to place a 20A XPF filter in series with each 120V line from your turbine.  That will notch out "in-band" noise, and may be sufficient for the input bandpass filters in your X10 modules to recover the incoming signals.  You would need two XPF filters, which are pretty inexpensive on eBay.

Jeff