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Author Topic: securing a macro w/flag  (Read 11608 times)

jimnfl

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securing a macro w/flag
« on: September 25, 2006, 08:19:19 AM »

i'm trying to write a macro using flags to secure my door strike.  just in case someone uses all on it won't trigger door.  i'm currently using condition with macro to check module status but want to use a flag also as a added security.    any suggestions?  thanks for ur input   jim
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steven r

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2006, 10:05:11 AM »

You're safe from an "All On". It doesn't trigger a macro. On the other hand, it would be very easy to plug in a controller and go through all the possible combinations. I wouldn't rely on a single on HC to offer any security. Any level of security would need macros and 2 or preferably more universal modules with their output wired in series. Macros would need to keep the universal modules active for only 5-10 seconds. I can go in more detail if you want.
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jimnfl

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2006, 10:49:52 AM »

thanks steve, yeah would like more detail.  right now  i use a1 to activated door strike but with condition that module g1 is on please help secure it more.  jim
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steven r

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2006, 11:29:48 PM »

thanks steve, yeah would like more detail.  right now  i use a1 to activated door strike but with condition that module g1 is on please help secure it more.  jim
Well that's the idea.

What I wasn't clear on is if you plan to use this to let someone in while your inside the house or access the door to come in yourself.

I'm rethinking my original initial idea as I've found some flaws in the original concept. I'll post it later if I figure out a way to do it.
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JimC

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2006, 07:39:42 AM »

jimnfl,

You said
Quote
i use a1 to activated door strike


If you do nothing else until Steven R gets back to you I would get away from using hose code A1. This is the default code for most, if not all X10 RF devices. This means that every time you receive a new motion sensor and put batteries in it your door strike will activate. It has also been reported by some that motion sensors default back to A1 when batteries get week.
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Tuicemen

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 09:41:49 AM »

If you do nothing else until Steven R gets back to you I would get away from using hose code A1. This is the default code for most, if not all X10 RF devices. This means that every time you receive a new motion sensor and put batteries in it your door strike will activate. It has also been reported by some that motion sensors default back to A1 when batteries get week.
Good point! Jim C
Also when the batteries start to fail, most motion sensors default back to A1 and have been known to send random A1 on/off signals while in this state!
they will also send A2 ON/OFF to correspond to dusk/dawn while in this state::) :( ;)
You could use conditions (flags/module status...)as well as Else's!(this can get tricky) but same command eg: "A1 ON"(in your case) would secure or unsecure your door strike(depending on the conditions and Else's)! ;)
Note:The macro trigger address is not the same as the address of your door strike! ;)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 09:44:45 AM by Tuicemen »
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steven r

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2006, 09:58:06 AM »

If you do nothing else until Steven R gets back to you I would get away from using hose code A1. This is the default code for most, if not all X10 RF devices. This means that every time you receive a new motion sensor and put batteries in it your door strike will activate. It has also been reported by some that motion sensors default back to A1 when batteries get week.
Yes! That's a very good point. I hadn't thought of that. It would defeat the whole point of having a lock at all if an X10 sensor effectively invited in everyone that came up to your door.

Still thinking about your application. I had an elaborate system all worked out in my head. Turns out I overlooked a flaw in my logic that would of allowed it to be easily defeated. I'm still thinking of an idea that might work.

The easiest way might turn out to be plug an universal module into an appliance module and then plugging that into another appliance module. This would give you a 3 digit code. You would need to successively turn on each appliance module in the chain and make sure the universal module was set for momentary contact. The macro that finally triggered the universal module would need to "back out" all the ONs but it could work. Want me to elaborate on that idea?

Keep in mind this in no way approaches the security of your key or even a garage door opener.

BTW... Anyone know an easy way to modify an appliance module to default to the OFF state with a power interuption? That would make security for my idea a lot easier to implement.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 10:17:44 AM by steven r »
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2006, 11:24:09 AM »

[
BTW... Anyone know an easy way to modify an appliance module to default to the OFF state with a power interuption? That would make security for my idea a lot easier to implement.

Steven R,
You'll get a kick out of this idea:

Screw together two (or more) LM15A SocketRocket modules.  Add a plug->socket and socket->plug adapter at either end and plug the UM506 into this chain of modules.   The LM15A uses a triac so stays Off when AC power is interrupted.  Plus it's non-dimming and has no local control.

I just tried this and it works - you have to turn them On in order but turning the first LM15A Off turns Off the others.  But you have to turn Off the UM506 first (or if in momentary mode, allow enought time for it to shut itself off).

Of course the security flaw with this idea is that two All-Lights-On commands in a row will result in turning on both LM15As.


« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 11:32:01 AM by Charles Sullivan »
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steven r

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2006, 11:55:09 AM »

[
BTW... Anyone know an easy way to modify an appliance module to default to the OFF state with a power interuption? That would make security for my idea a lot easier to implement.

Steven R,
You'll get a kick out of this idea:

Screw together two (or more) LM15A SocketRocket modules.  Add a plug->socket and socket->plug adapter at either end and plug the UM506 into this chain of modules.   The LM15A uses a triac so stays Off when AC power is interrupted.  Plus it's non-dimming and has no local control.

I just tried this and it works - you have to turn them On in order but turning the first LM15A Off turns Off the others.  But you have to turn Off the UM506 first (or if in momentary mode, allow enought time for it to shut itself off).

Of course the security flaw with this idea is that two All-Lights-On commands in a row will result in turning on both LM15As.
You must know me.  :) Very clever idea. With a little macro support it could work well.
Security could be increased by having the 2nd, 3rd, etc SocketRockets on different house codes. That could minimise the chance of an "All Lights On" security by pass.
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steven r

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2006, 12:29:52 PM »

Ok, Jim, here's an idea using Charles's SocketRocket input.

Equipment list:

  • 2 SocketRockets
  • 2 plug adaptors (one to allow you plug the SocketRocket into AC outlet & a 2nd to allow you to plug the universal module into the SocketRocket)
  • 1 universal module

Define one SocketRocket as D1 and the other as E2.
Set the universal module as D2 set for momentary contact.

Simple access would be the sequence D1 On, E2 On and then D2 On to open and with D1 off to reset.

You could use a macro such as the following to increase security a bit.
Macro triggering with E4 ON
D2 On
delay 10 seconds
D1 Off

With the above macro, the open sequence would be D1 On, E2 On and then E4 On to open. The lock would reset by itself in 10 seconds.

Additional security could be added by having multiple other marcos send a D1 Off.
e.g.
Macros triggering with D3 On, E1 On, etc.
D1 Off
delay 1 sec
D1 Off
delay 1 sec
D1 Off

This macro would force about a 2 second delay if the wrong signal was sent before the correct sequence would be accepted.

Be sure to hide or carry a key if it fails or there's a power failure. 
BTW... Does your lock fail safe or fail secure. i.e. Does it remain locked in a power failure?

Also if you decide to use the idea, let us know how well it works out of theory and in the real world.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 12:42:16 PM by steven r »
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2006, 05:43:24 PM »

You have to be a little careful with repeated commands to a Socket Rocket right after it's been powered up, else its address may be reprogrammed.

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steven r

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Re: securing a macro w/flag
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2006, 06:39:28 PM »

You have to be a little careful with repeated commands to a Socket Rocket right after it's been powered up, else its address may be reprogrammed.
Another very good point!
e.g. In the above, a series of "D1 On" commands would plow through any number of SocketRockets beyond the first one effectively reducing your security to 2 commands. You might just want a 2 code protection using 1 SocketRocket along with 1 universal module.

Also unless all this is so you can unlock the door from your living room chair, a remote controlled lock would offer more security.

Then again you really need to decide who is the likely target thief from which you're trying to protect yourself. Most crooks are going for the easy hit. Those are likely to even by discouraged by a fake sign or even a protected by X10 sign and move on to the next house. If they have a reason to target your house they most likely can get access. (I have a professionally installed alarm and if I had to I could defeat it easily.) You can only hope that you are 1 up on the crook and that you have neighbors that can hear your alarm.

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