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[JeffVolp]

Missed your update while I was scanning microwave ratings.  Yes, a 15A filter should be adequate.  However, if the 5A filter did not solve the problem with the microwave plugged into it but off, then the 15A filter may not be the answer either.

It IS safe to plug the microwave into the filter for testing as long as it is not switched on.  If your X10 devices work properly in that configuration, then the larger filter should do the job.

Jeff

[jpc763]

Missed your update while I was scanning microwave ratings.  Yes, a 15A filter should be adequate.  However, if the 5A filter did not solve the problem with the microwave plugged into it but off, then the 15A filter may not be the answer either.

It IS safe to plug the microwave into the filter for testing as long as it is not switched on.  If your X10 devices work properly in that configuration, then the larger filter should do the job.

Jeff

So here is what I have tried...

1) Old Microwave (1000 watt GE Model) is plugged into wall.  No filter, nothing.  x-10 works.
2) Microwave is plugged into the wall.  No filter, nothing.  x-10 does not respond in 2 rooms, but all of the others work.
3) Microwave is plugged into 5 amp filter.  Microwave is off (clock is on).  x-10 does not respond in 2 rooms, but all of the others work.
4) Microwave is unplugged.  x-10 works.

So based on your response above, the 15 amp filter might not work.  I really don't want to keep buying solutions that don't work.  I understand that this is tricky stuff.  Any other things to try?

Thanks for all of the posts, I am just getting frustrated.   

John
he microwave plugged into a 5 amp filter, plugged into the wall.  The microwave is OFF (but the clock is on).  x-10 does not work.  If I remove the filter and leave the mir

[Puck]

Based on the results of what you have tried, I can't see a 15 Amp filter being the answer. Because a single filter did not fix the problem, then it's likely the problem is not from being a signal sucker... which leaves it being a noise source. This is not surprising because it probably has a processor controlling it.

Without knowing the schematic of the various filters, I can only guess that the 15 Amp one is the same as the 5 Amp one but with higher current rated components. If this is the case, then the filtering capabilities of each would be the same. When you stacked two, which would improve the filtering over just one, and the problem was still there leads me to think the 15 Amp filter is not going to solve the problem. It may be worth a try anyways... hopefully they have a better filtering scheme to go with the higher current rating.

[JeffVolp]

Based on the results of what you have tried, I can't see a 15 Amp filter being the answer. Because a single filter did not fix the problem, then it's likely the problem is not from being a signal sucker... which leaves it being a noise source. This is not surprising because it probably has a processor controlling it.

Because the 5A filter did not clearly solve the problem, it may be more complicated than just a signal sucker or noise source.  The 5A filter should be effective resolving both problems unless the signal level was marginal before the microwave was plugged in.  The fact that the older microwave had no effect only means it was neither a signal sucker or noise source itself.

Perhaps the best approach is to buy or borrow a signal strength meter such as the Elk ESM1 to find out what really is going on.  The 5A filter will significantly reduce the effect of a signal sucker or noise source, but cannot totally eliminate it.  If the signal levels in those two rooms was marginal, then even a slight further decrease in signal level could cause those devices to missbehave.

It would be intersting to find out if those two rooms share the same circuit.  If so, is there something on that circuit that may already be attenuating the signal?  If not on the same circuit, are those rooms perhaps on the other phase from the X10 devices that work?  What is used as a X10 signal source?  Is there a signal coupler installed?

Since the 5A filter did not solve the problem, the 15A filter may not help either.  The simple answer may be to just increase your signal levels throughout the house.

Jeff

[jpc763]

OK so more information. 

I have a signal (phase?) coupler installed in the basement.  I do not have any signal amplifiers.  I have about 20 x-10 devices installed. 

The two rooms that are being difficult always work or don't work together. 

One room is the computer room and a XPPF is installed between the computer system and the wall. 

The other room has a TV, VCR and the kids gamecube.  There is no filter there.  At one point I had another computer in the second room, but I had to install a filter as the x-10 in the two rooms stopped working.

If I put a filter between the TV, VCR, etc. and the wall AND put one at the microwave, would that help?

Also, if I need to amplify the signal, how do I do that?

Thanks again.

John

I am adding that the phase coupler installed (by an electrician) is the x10 Pro XPCP Signal Bridge Passive Coupler

[JeffVolp]

So you have at least a capacitive coupler, or perhaps the XPCP or equivalent.  That should be fine.

A XPPF on the computer is the right thing to do.  Those switching power supplies can be major signal suckers.

Some other electronics can also be a problem.  Our Sony TV killed signal levels until it was isolated with a filter.  Certainly either unplug or isolate any electronics on that circuit with a filter.  That also applies surge protector power strips.  Then repeat the microwave test with the unit off and plugged into the filter.

The reason for doing all this is that you want to keep "unfriendly" devices isolated from the X10 communication bus (the powerline itself).  Most X10 transmitters do not pump that much energy onto the powerline, and it doesn't take much to kill the signal level.

Jeff

[jpc763]

OK, so this is just plain nuts....   

I unplugged the microwave.  x-10 works. 
I put a filter on the powerstrip that controls the TV, vcr, etc. and guess what, x-10 stops working. 
I pull the filter off and plug the powerstrip into the wall, x-10 works. 
I leave the powersupply plugged into the top outlet and plug the filter in the bottom and x-10 does not work.

Additonally, the two controls (in two different rooms) now are not matched up anymore.  One is a lamp module LM465 and it either works or not depending on the filter.  The other is a SuperSocket SR227 and right now it is not responding to anything.  I have had to replace these SR227 modules before because they stopped working.

I am stumped.

John

[jpc763]

OK, so this is just plain nuts....   

I unplugged the microwave.  x-10 works. 
I put a filter on the powerstrip that controls the TV, vcr, etc. and guess what, x-10 stops working. 
I pull the filter off and plug the powerstrip into the wall, x-10 works. 
I leave the powersupply plugged into the top outlet and plug the filter in the bottom and x-10 does not work.

Additonally, the two controls (in two different rooms) now are not matched up anymore.  One is a lamp module LM465 and it either works or not depending on the filter.  The other is a SuperSocket SR227 and right now it is not responding to anything.  I have had to replace these SR227 modules before because they stopped working.

I am stumped.

John

Disregard entire post.  Not only are the two still controller or not depending on the microwave, but the whole filter thing was a red herring.  Sorry.  Back to square one.

John

[jpc763]

OK All, so I know I sound like a total nut job.... 

I was sure that it was not working...  I really was.  And I think the problem is not the filter or the phase or anything, but the strength of signal from my palm pad remote.

I installed a filter on the microwave and one on the tv/vcr.  When I am near the transmitter, all seems to work.  When I am in the rooms in question (far away from the transmitter) they do not work.

So should I replace the 5 amp with a 15 amp?

Sorry for the runaround. 

John

[JeffVolp]

Ah, I caught your latest post while I was editing this.

So, except for a weak palm-pad signal, everything works fine when there are filters on both the electronics and microwave.  If so, then the answer is that 15A filter for the microwave.

Many people become frustrated when they get results like this.  But it virtually always boils down to either low signal strength or noise.  Once you isolate the offending devices and get good signals throughout the house, you should have a much more reliable system.  Unfortunately, that is difficult to do without some sort of signal level meter.

Jeff

[jpc763]

Thanks.  So I am ready to invest in a signal level meter.  How do they work?  Do you plug them in and they give you a number?  I am not a EE or an electrician (software, not hardware) so it would have to be easy to use.

How are the x-10 models?  The XPTT and the XPTR?  It says you need the XPTR to use the XPTT, do you need the XPTT to use the XPTR?

Thanks, John

[vhoang]

You plug the tester into an outlet,  when it "hears" an x10 signal, it will tell you how strong the signal is.

There's one that has a digital readout, and one with a strength bar.

You pick an area you want to analyze, plug it in and go around unplugging or plugging stuff in while clicking the palmpad to see what kind
of impact the tested device has on degradating x10 signal.   

You will see right away which areas will have problems, (weaker signal)  and can find and filter devices that cause problems.

[vhoang]

I haven't heard of a poor brand that causes problems yet.

Your palmpad + transceiver can act in place of the XPTT (in theory).
XPTR detect P1 ON/OFF..   
If can simulate the on & off cycle with the same consistancy you might be able to do it.
But for most purposes they are designed to work together.

Other brands include.
Elk ESM1 X10 Signal Tester
Testerinc
Act Multi-Tester ($$$)

These will pick up any X10 standard code, so an existing transmitter will be the source of the x10 signal.
I particularly like the Testerlinc because it tells you which code it's actually see and how strong it is.

froogle.google.com. 

[Brian H]

I have both a TersterLinc by Smarthome and an ELK ESM-1.
You can use any X10 transmitter to send the signals. Like a TM751 and a remote. I used a PowerFlasher in the constant send with closed contacts and a jumper on the input.

[JeffVolp]

Although it has gone up in price, the Elk ESM1 is still a good choice.  It can recognize any X10 code, and will also indicate background noise level.

If cost is not an issue, take a look at the Monterey.  I'd like one of those myself, but it is pretty expensive.

Jeff