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Author Topic: Monitoring codes via CM15a  (Read 7288 times)

Vindi2

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Monitoring codes via CM15a
« on: July 05, 2007, 10:22:55 AM »

Hello all,

I have a question that I cannot resolve by reading all the posts here...

I have installed a comprehensive X10 lighting system in my new house and have AHP with a CM15a and have also purchased a V572B Tranceiver. My plan was to not use the CM15 as the RF receiver but the V572B. I understand that the theory is I should be able to use the monitor function of the CM15 to trigger macros from recieved housecodes over PLC. I can also turn off codes trancieved by either device. Will this plan work? So far I have been unable to see anything in the activity display from the monitored codes, but all of the switches I have are RWS17's and apparently do not send a resonse on the PLC when manually activated.

On a different note, I have discovered that I am exceeding the maximum power of the RWS17 on a couple of circuits and have purchased Instineon 1000w switches to replace them. I have just read that these will not work with the RWS19 companions that I have also installed. Is there an alternative that will work? All the wirning is complete and I would hate to have to change the companions as well.

Yours comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Vindi2
 
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Vindi2

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2007, 11:52:56 AM »

Ok, so after some testing just now I have discovered that no matter what I do the CM15 always responds to the RF commands no matter how I have set the transceive configuration.

I created a test macro set to trigger on G1 and turning on a light on F1, I then set the CM15 to monitor G and made sure that the transcieve settings excluded G.

However, the CM15 not only received the G1 command from the remote but triggered the macro!

What am I not getting here?
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Puck

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2007, 12:18:13 PM »

Ok, so after some testing just now I have discovered that no matter what I do the CM15 always responds to the RF commands no matter how I have set the transceive configuration.

The CM15A requires an electrical modification to disable the RF Receiver. Simply turning off a housecode in the transceive table will not prevent the RF signal from triggering a macro.
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Boiler

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2007, 01:56:28 PM »


On a different note, I have discovered that I am exceeding the maximum power of the RWS17 on a couple of circuits and have purchased Instineon 1000w switches to replace them. I have just read that these will not work with the RWS19 companions that I have also installed. Is there an alternative that will work? All the wirning is complete and I would hate to have to change the companions as well.

Be advised, the Insteon Dimmers(?) will require a ground (return) for proper operation.  This will normally be present in a three way circuit, but may not be run to both boxes.  The RWS19 cannot be used as a companion in a three way circuit. The Insteon switches are 2 way X10 compatible - they will transmit on/off x10 commands when operated.  This gives you some interesting options.

  • 1.) For a wired 3 way installation you could use 2 of the 1000W Insteon switches (expensive) or you could pair a single 1000W switch with a 600W Icon switch (less expensive).  If you use a lower power Icon switch as the companion you MUST make certain that the 1000W switch is controlling the load.

  • 2.) Since the Insteon switches are X10 2-way, you could created a "vitual 3-way circuit".  For this configuration you would rewire the 1000W switch directly to the load.  The second switch (Insteon or other 2-way) is wired from power to common with the output capped and can be placed anywhere in the house.  The switches are then programmed to the same house and unit codes.  When the Virtual switch is activated it will transmit is X10 house and unit code + on/off and the hardwired switch will respond.

  • 3.) Dispense with the Insteon switches and get a Leviton (HCM10??) 1000W switch + slave.  These can be wired in a three way circuit and the common lead connection is provided (for noise immunity) but optional.

I have all of the above configurations in my house.


[TTA Edit: Looks "prettier"... ;) ]
« Last Edit: July 05, 2007, 06:02:03 PM by TakeTheActive »
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Walt2

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 08:37:30 AM »


The CM15A requires an electrical modification to disable the RF Receiver. Simply turning off a housecode in the transceive table will not prevent the RF signal from triggering a macro.


Wow, I didn't know that!   :o

So, the transceiver table within AHP will just enable/disable the CM15a from passing onto the power line the RF commands, but the CM15a itself will still "see" and react to all RF commands ?? ?? ?? ??
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* Sears Home Control System, Radio Shack Plug 'n Power, NuTone, Stanley LightMaker, BSR, HomeLink.
* Tecmar Device Master, CP290 (LightHouse), CM11A (AH), CM14A (AH2), CM15A (AHPro).

Puck

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2007, 09:30:36 AM »

So, the transceiver table within AHP will just enable/disable the CM15a from passing onto the power line the RF commands, but the CM15a itself will still "see" and react to all RF commands

That is correct ...often confusing and misunderstood, but correct.
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Boiler

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2007, 01:37:24 PM »


The CM15A requires an electrical modification to disable the RF Receiver. Simply turning off a housecode in the transceive table will not prevent the RF signal from triggering a macro.


Wow, I didn't know that!   :o

So, the transceiver table within AHP will just enable/disable the CM15a from passing onto the power line the RF commands, but the CM15a itself will still "see" and react to all RF commands ?? ?? ?? ??

So, the transceiver table within AHP will just enable/disable the CM15a from passing onto the power line the RF commands, but the CM15a itself will still "see" and react to all RF commands

That is correct ...often confusing and misunderstood, but correct.


Allow me to confuse this thread by saying that this is correct in most cases.  I believe the true answer depends on the firmware revision of your CM15a. 

I have 2 newer CM15a's which both respond exactly as Puck has stated (disabling the Transceived house code will prevent the CM15a from putting information on the power line but It will still activated macro's).
  • Unit 2 - '06 model, firmware revision M
  • Unit 3 - '07 model, firmware unknown (I'm still checking it out prior to voiding my warranty).

My "old" unit responds differently.  With a transceived house code disabled, it sees the RF (logs in activity monitor) but it will not trigger macros or put info on the power line.  I've just verified this again minutes ago - there is no power line or macro activity in activity monitor.  I also check the power line with a testerlinc - nothing transmitted.
  • Unit 1 - '04 model, firmware revision E

I've been slowly comparing the reactions of my various interfaces - there are quite a few differences between the units.  As some point I'll try to quantify these differences based on the Firmware revision of the hardware.  If you're interested in contributing, TTA has placed a Sticky in the Software bugs thread.

I've become a little concerned that some of our "newbies" may actually be using old hardware (new to the site doesn't necessarily mean new to X10).  If so, we could be leading them down the wrong path and frustrating them further.

Walt - you've been a member for awhile.  You may want to test your CM15a to see how it responds.

The Boiler
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Walt2

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2007, 01:45:40 PM »


Walt - you've been a member for awhile.  You may want to test your CM15a to see how it responds.


How does one determine one's revision level?

Mine is a beta-test unit (M.C. never sent out production level units to beta testers).   As far as I know, it is revision "A".  :D   
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* Sears Home Control System, Radio Shack Plug 'n Power, NuTone, Stanley LightMaker, BSR, HomeLink.
* Tecmar Device Master, CP290 (LightHouse), CM11A (AH), CM14A (AH2), CM15A (AHPro).

Boiler

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2007, 02:06:21 PM »

Walt2,
Whoa - a Beta unit??

Now you've got my attention.  The Firmware revision is listed on a label attached to the micro-controller inside the unit.  Have a look at the thread -

http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=12826.0

Mine very pretty easy to disassemble - you need to be a bit careful with the antenna leads but there was ample "slack" to remove the cover (see the picture in the thread).
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Puck

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2007, 04:14:26 PM »

Boiler: Thanks for the new info ...I guess the emphasis should be placed on confusing;)

Just to add a little more confusion, after upgrading with OnAlert, I noticed that my macros that are stored on the PC required their house code to be transceived in order to be triggered (everytime) by RF.  ???

Apparently the rules of operation depend on many variables.

Next time I have my 2 CM15A's open I'll check their firmware revisions.
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Walt2

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2007, 04:30:42 PM »

Walt2,
Whoa - a Beta unit??

Now you've got my attention.  The Firmware revision is listed on a label attached to the micro-controller inside the unit.  Have a look at the thread -

http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=12826.0

Mine very pretty easy to disassemble - you need to be a bit careful with the antenna leads but there was ample "slack" to remove the cover (see the picture in the thread).

OK, I'm continuing the firmware side discussion over there... 
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* Sears Home Control System, Radio Shack Plug 'n Power, NuTone, Stanley LightMaker, BSR, HomeLink.
* Tecmar Device Master, CP290 (LightHouse), CM11A (AH), CM14A (AH2), CM15A (AHPro).

Boiler

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2007, 04:37:29 PM »

Puck,

Thank you for the input.  I just saw Walt's post that he is posting on the other thread.  That's probably appropriate - we're diverging quite a bit from Vindi's original thread.

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Vindi2

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2007, 09:09:44 AM »

Well I seem to have created debate  :)

Back to one of my original questions...

I am sitting at my desk looking at two unopened boxes, one has three Insteon 1000w dimmers that I plan to return and the other has 3 Levitron 2203WI - ENHANCED X10 DIMMER SWITCH 1000W.

From the reply above it seems that I might be able to use the Levitron's, but will they function with the X10 slaves? I dont want to blow anything up  :)

I have checked the wiring diagrams for both products and it looks like I can use the wiring as installed, but it is unclear as to the actual operation of the Levitron and X10 slaves. If they work the same then cool, if not I may have another problem.

Can anyone throw any light on this (no pun intended).

Re the CM15 and RF reception, it sounds like even if I set the V572 transceiver to a specific house code and turn that code off in the CM15 but set it to monitor I may still suffer from problems if they both receive the rf command. Is that a correct statement?

If so I guess I will have to rethink the RF installation.


[TTA Edit: Combined 2 sequential, 5 minute apart posts into 1. HINT: Top-right corner MODIFY = EDIT. ;)]
« Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 12:34:42 AM by TakeTheActive »
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Boiler

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2007, 10:10:17 AM »

Well I seem to have created debate  :)

Back to one of my original questions...

I am sitting at my desk looking at two unopened boxes, one has three Insteon 1000w dimmers that I plan to return and the other has 3 Levitron 2203WI - ENHANCED X10 DIMMER SWITCH 1000W.

From the reply above it seems that I might be able to use the Levitron's, but will they function with the X10 slaves? I dont want to blow anything up  :)

I have checked the wiring diagrams for both products and it looks like I can use the wiring as installed, but it is unclear as to the actual operation of the Levitron and X10 slaves. If they work the same then cool, if not I may have another problem. 

Can anyone throw any light on this (no pun intended).

Debate is a good thing! We're learning some things right along with you.

I don't believe you can use the X10 slave with the Leviton HCM10 (HCM10 is Levitons part #, 2203WI is a Smarthome catalog number).  You'll need to get a Leviton slave switch (Leviton MS00R-10, Smarthome 2365WI).

These dimmers are compatible with the CM15a interface with one exception - %brightness commands will not produce the correct level on the Leviton Dimmer ( i.e. a 65% brightness level set on the CM15a will give a incorrect light level with a Leviton Dimmer).  This should be consistent - You'll need to re-calibrate yourself a bit if you want to use this feature.

I probably should have asked some time ago but - what exactly are you controlling with this circuit.  1000W is a lot.  If you intend to put the Leviton dimmer into a box with another dimmer you may need to derate the max power handling capability (i.e. 1000W may become 800W max due to the temp rise from the other dimmer).  This is only a concern for the HCM10 location (the slave doesn't actually carry current).

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Vindi2

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Re: Monitoring codes via CM15a
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2007, 10:35:33 AM »

The reason for the 1000w dimmers is that I have three circuits that have 8 can lights on - currently fitted with 100w floods. I can change the floods to 75w but that still gives a load of 600w and I dont want to be at the top end of the power range of the switch. 1 of the RWS17's has already suffered a meltdown  :o

So you dont think the RWS19 that I already have will work? Thats a problem as I have a lot of them, each circuit has 1 master and three slaves installed.

Does anyone know what the internal circuit of the slaves look like? I am a IEEE engineer and can figure out what will work if I can find the data.
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