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Author Topic: Circuit won't turn off/on, dim/bright oscillates  (Read 5750 times)

mburwen

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Circuit won't turn off/on, dim/bright oscillates
« on: August 08, 2007, 02:29:22 PM »

I replaced a 4-way light circuit that had consisted of 2 3-way switches and 2 4-way switches with a WS12A and 3 XPSS slaves.  Depressing any of the slave switches will alternately dim or brighten the lights, but a hard on/off is not possible.  In addition, sometimes this circuit will by itself oscillate between dim and bright.  I am confident that my wiring is correct.  The aggregate power consumption of the bulbs in this circuit is 560 watts, slightly above the 500 watt rating of the WS12A.  Could this be the problem?  I unscrewed a couple of bulbs to reduce the load, but that didn't make any difference.  Operating the circuit using the X10 remote command was also problematic.  Can anyone tell me what is going on and if there is a fix?
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Boiler

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Re: Circuit won't turn off/on, dim/bright oscillates
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2007, 05:18:42 PM »

I replaced a 4-way light circuit that had consisted of 2 3-way switches and 2 4-way switches with a WS12A and 3 XPSS slaves.  Depressing any of the slave switches will alternately dim or brighten the lights, but a hard on/off is not possible. 

If you are truly using a WS12A with XPSS slaves, you are mixing configurations. 

The WS12a is designed to work with a WS14a companion.  The WS14a controls the load in this installation.

WS12a Installation

The XPSS Slaves are designed to work with a XPD3 master dimmer.  In this installation the XPD3 controls the load.

XPD3 Installation

As far as the power rating is concerned, don't exceed the 500 watts. You really don't want the triac output overheating and going into meltdown.  Insurance companies have been known to get a bit snotty about this. 

Install lower wattage lamps or use a higher wattage dimmer. 

If you have additional dimmer switches in the same box as the load controlling switch you need additional derating.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2007, 04:43:49 PM by Boiler »
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mburwen

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Re: Circuit won't turn off/on, dim/bright oscillates
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2007, 03:56:10 PM »

Thank you.  The X10.com Tech support person told me that the XPSS slaves could be used with the WS12A.  I doubt that I will call them for advice in the future.  >:(
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Boiler

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Re: Circuit won't turn off/on, dim/bright oscillates
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2007, 07:18:37 PM »

Thank you.  The X10.com Tech support person told me that the XPSS slaves could be used with the WS12A.  I doubt that I will call them for advice in the future.  >:(

Depending on the internals if the XPSS slaves, I suppose this is possible.  I'm going by the diagrams which show the XPSS slaves connected to power.  I have this in my home (with the XPD3).  A 4 way configuration (and more) is definitely possible with these switches.

Here's another possibility - we've been getting a lot of posts about new "enhanced" X10 switches and modules.  One of these was for a WS467 that went into dim mode with just a tap. 

Link to thread: [BUG?] Latest Batch of WS467s Function Differently From Previous Versions...

You mentioned that your switches didn't operate properly using a remote.  This does not sound like the WS467 problem (they operated ok with RF).  Could you explain a bit more?

Might be worth another call to X10 Tech support.  Explain your problem, ask about alternate wiring configurations, and whether these are new enhanced switches.
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dave w

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Re: Circuit won't turn off/on, dim/bright oscillates
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2007, 04:57:44 PM »

I replaced a 4-way light circuit that had consisted of 2 3-way switches and 2 4-way switches with a WS12A and 3 XPSS slaves.  Depressing any of the slave switches will alternately dim or brighten the lights, but a hard on/off is not possible.  In addition, sometimes this circuit will by itself oscillate between dim and bright.  I am confident that my wiring is correct.  The aggregate power consumption of the bulbs in this circuit is 560 watts, slightly above the 500 watt rating of the WS12A.  Could this be the problem?  I unscrewed a couple of bulbs to reduce the load, but that didn't make any difference.  Operating the circuit using the X10 remote command was also problematic.  Can anyone tell me what is going on and if there is a fix?
Both slave switches work the same and are interchangeable (unless something has changed in 5 years).
Your oscillating sounds like a switch sticking on a dimable wall switch. The push switch in the WS12 is notorious for failure. When this "oscillation" starts, how do you stop it?
60 watts over the limit won't cause BRI-DIM cycling,  but you are pushing your luck. If you insist on taking this chance of overheating the switch an a bare minimum Install the switch in a metal box and make sure the ears of the switch is nice and snug to the ears of the box. A metal switch cover would be good also. A 1000watt switch from Smarthome would be even better.
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mburwen

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Re: Circuit won't turn off/on, dim/bright oscillates
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2007, 07:50:18 PM »

Thanks heros.  I put in the XPD3 switch and all is well - almost.  The master and all three slave switches work "mechanically", but I'm unable to turn the system on or off with either an RF X10 remote or via an ir543a.  Is there a simple way to find out if the address I've dialed in on the master switch is true?  I've got 14 other circuits in my X10 system and all work flawlessly.  Is it likely that the X10 receiver in the switch is bad?
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Brian H

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Re: Circuit won't turn off/on, dim/bright oscillates
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2007, 06:27:12 AM »

Try moving the RF Tranceiver you use for the RF controls to a different circuit and see if the unresponsive switch now works. You may have a noise problem or signal sucker;  on the switches circuit and moving the receiver may get more signal to it.
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steven r

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Re: Circuit won't turn off/on, dim/bright oscillates
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2007, 01:03:47 PM »

[...Might be worth another call to X10 Tech support.  Explain your problem, ask about alternate wiring configurations, and whether these are new enhanced switches.
Don't count on X10 knowing if they sold you a "new & improved" switch. Look at the code number on the switch. If it starts with "07", it's a good chance you have a new switch.
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