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[agw]

Sorry for being vague, I'll try to be brief. We installed some X10
wall modules several years ago and promptly didn't use the system :-).
Anyway, we want to get them working now so that we can have them timed
on/off (and use some other modules as well). Note... we also have some of the security modules working as well (door/window sensors, motion detectors), but they don't interact, right?

Looking through the posts on this site, I can see that there are many things to watch out for, my problem right now is (a) I can't get any filters or what-not in the next couple of days (when I'll need this working hopefully), and (b) I don't know where to begin.

Before finding this site, this is what I did (and I've flagged errors/weird things with *****) -- if anybody could point me in the right direction to start figuring this out, that would be greatly appreciated.

• 3 wall modules (I2, I3, I4) installed. I2 and I3 are on circuit 14, I4 is on circuit 24 (this is a 24-circuit panel, so these (all on the bottom row) should all be phase 2 I assume)
• 1 lamp module (I5) (originally installed on circuit 14 as well)
• attached computer interface CM-11A to computer, plugged into socket on power bar, circuit 14
• ActiveHome software installed, added each of those modules.
• tested lamp module. Worked ok.
• tested wall module I2 - ok
• tested wall module I3 - ok
• tested wall module I4 - nothing happened *****
• switched wall module I4 to A1  (just to test for any weirdness)
• tested again, nothing happened
• plugged in RR501 Transceiver, set to housecode A (plugged into circuit 16)
• tested again, nothing happened except the transceiver turned off/on
  (could hear the "CLICK!") *****
• put A1 back to I4
• put transceiver to housecode I
• tested again, nothing happened and the transceiver *didn't* turn off/
  on *****
• checked electrical panel: I4 is on a different circuit than I2 and
  I3, but on the same phase I believe (24 breakers, 1-12 on top, 13-24
  on bottom, I2/I3 on 14, I4 on 24.
• plugged I5 into a plug on same circuit as I4.
• tested I5 -- NOTHING HAPPENED. *****

My son says we had a small device that used to plug into the serial
port (I can't find that).

Any help would be greatly appreciated (I don't mind being told I'm doing something stupid -- I'm willing to learn :-)

Thanks.

[Brian H]

Most breaker boxes do not have all of one phase together. Every so often they switch phases. That way you can put a ganged set of breakers next to each other for a 230 volt circuit. So you could have a phase thing.
Many surge strips absorb X10 signals. As a test you may want to try the CM11A with no strip as a test. The computer it is connected to if on the same circuit maybe making noise or also absorbing signals. So a Filter maybe needed when you get some.
Have you had a chance to look at some of the great tutorials our members have posted?
Jeff Volp has a great one:  http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm

[Boiler]

Expanding a bit on Brian's comments,

The picture below shows the layout of one of my subpanels.  Going from top to bottom on the right side, the breakers alternate phases.  This allows you to plug a 220V breaker in to both phases.  Assuming that your box is numbered the same (not necessarily true),  your #14 circuit would be on the opposite phase from circuits 16 and 24.

You've actually taken some good steps in troubleshooting and generating a layout of your system.  I've attached a truth table of what I believe you have done. 

Here's a summary of what I think you have:

• Circuit #14 - Everything works (as it should - your CM11a is plugged in here).
• Circuit #24 - Nothing works.  This may be the opposite phase, and may have some signal absorbers/noise generators on the line.
• Circuit #16 - appears to work "sometimes" (RR501).  These are normally the toughest to solve.  Again this appears to be on the opposite phase and may have some line loading (but not as much as circuit #24).

Depending on how populated your breaker box is, you may be able to shift your breakers to the same phase (move the # 16 breaker into the # 18 position).

Have a look at the link Brian provided to Jeff Volp's troubleshooting guide (excellent walk through).

Since you aren't trying to automate your entire home, you may be able to "move around" problem devices and your controlled devices.  To do this you'll need to generate a map of your electrical system and installed loads.  There are some good guides for doing this:

Mapping links: Map/Measure/Correct


[TTA Edit: UserID's BOLD PURPLE; LINKs BOLD BLUE. NICE PICTURES! Good things BOLD GREEN; Bad things BOLD RED.]

[-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)]

• 3 wall modules (I2, I3, I4) installed. I2 and I3 are on circuit 14, I4 is on circuit 24 (this is a 24-circuit panel, so these (all on the bottom row) should all be phase 2 I assume)
• tested wall module I4 - nothing happened *****
• switched wall module I4 to A1  (just to test for any weirdness)
• tested again, nothing happened
• plugged in RR501 Transceiver, set to housecode A (plugged into circuit 16)
• tested again, nothing happened except the transceiver turned off/on
  (could hear the "CLICK!") *****
• put A1 back to I4
• put transceiver to housecode I
• tested again, nothing happened and the transceiver *didn't* turn off/on *****

Following this chain of events, I believe the reason your RR501 didn't click after you set things back to House Code I is that you were sending X10 signals addressed to I4 and the relay in the RR501 was set to unit code 1 and was therefore listening for I1 at that point.  The only reason it clicked the first time is that you were sending signals addressed to A1 and with the RR501 set to house code A, that would address it's relay as well as the wall switch module which would both have been listening for A1 at that point. 

[Brian H]

Yes you only have Unit One or Nine [switch marked 1-9] and the House Code on a RR501.

[-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)]

Yes you only have Unit One or Nine [switch marked 1-9] and the House Code on a RR501.

Yes, I forgot about the switch, thanks.  I edited my post so as not to say always unit 1.
However, I think I did solve the "click / no click" part of aqw's puzzle.   

[Walt2]

Yes you only have Unit One or Nine [switch marked 1-9] and the House Code on a RR501.

It has  been a while, but doesn't that switch also set the RR501 to transceive only unit codes 1 to 8, or 9 to 16?

[Walt2]

My son says we had a small device that used to plug into the serial
port (I can't find that).

A "Firecracker" ? ? ?  Doesn't X10 come up with the oddest names.  It is also called a CM17A.

[TakeTheActive]

Looking through the posts on this site, I can see that there are many things to watch out for, my problem right now is:

• (a) I can't get any filters or what-not in the next couple of days (when I'll need this working hopefully), and
• (b) I don't know where to begin.
  

...Any help would be greatly appreciated (I don't mind being told I'm doing something stupid -- I'm willing to learn :-)[/size]

Leaving on vacation, huh?

Begin here (QUOTING from one of my *MANY* TakeTheActive-to-Newbie replies in the Archives):

Without a proper foundation in X10 knowledge and a logical plan-of-action, successfully troubleshooting and solving an X10 problem is like hitting the bullseye on a dart board while throwing the darts BLINDFOLDED (*AFTER* someone randomly spun you around! ). But, if you've got money to burn...

Back to your experience level -

• Are you 'brand-new' to X10, or did you use it successfully in a previous house and are now having problems in a 'new' house?
  
  
• Are you familiar with the terms 'Signal Sucker' and/or 'Noise Generator' ?
  
  
• Do you currently own any 'Filters' ?
  
  

...Is there anything else I can try?

Rather than volley back-and-forth with 'Try this...', 'Didn't work? Well then, try this...', I prefer to get Newbies up to a 'known' knowledge level and then work from there.

For a solid foundation of X10 Operation, please start off by reading:

JV Digital Engineering's X10 Troubleshooting Tutorials Series

Then:

MAP / MEASURE / CORRECT - be sure to read the EXCELLENT articles written by JeffVolp and Puck

Finally, with your CIRCUIT MAP and SIGNAL METER in hand, finish up with:

TTA's X10 Troubleshooting Tips Thread [Updated: 2007/03/05]  (Read 7449 times)

As both Jeff Volp and I say:

I understand that most users don't want to hear this but

to have a reliable X10 System requires a substantial upfront investment in time and effort

To Get a Reliable X10 System (and I mean RELIABLE), One Has To Do Some Homework (courtesy of Jeff Volp)

Have fun and keep us all updated with your progress!

[TakeTheActive]

Most breaker boxes do not have all of one phase together. Every so often they switch phases. That way you can put a ganged set of breakers next to each other for a 230 volt circuit....

Most of the boxes I've seen follow some sort of "logical grouping pattern".

[TakeTheActive]

It has  been a while, but doesn't that switch also set the RR501 to transceive only unit codes 1 to 8, or 9 to 16?

That was only the *EARLY* versions, long, long, ago.

Yet another "Same Model Number / Different Firmware / Different Operation" module for Boiler's Database.

P.S. to Boiler - you might get some DATES from the NEWSGROUP: Comp.Home.Automation and UserID: Dave Houston

[agw]

Thanks all for the pointers... will be going through them to find some logic in my setup :-)

In the meantime, though, and this was just so much fun...

I took my computer and plugged it (and the CM-11A) into the circuit with the I5 module.
The I5 module worked properly, as did the I3, but the I2 didn't. (so, the reverse of the original situation).

Turns out the I3 light (in the kitchen) is in the same circuit as the counter plugs (so, dual phase - phase 1 on top, phase 2 on bottom).

Plugged computer and CM-11A into a countertop outlet, plugged RR501 into the I5 circuit.

They all work now :-) (and yes, this is a kludge -- I'll be doing some reading on the links you all gave me, so that I can do things properly when time allows).


Thanks again, all of you!

[Walt2]

Plugged computer and CM-11A into a countertop outlet, plugged RR501 into the I5 circuit.

They all work now :-) (and yes, this is a kludge -- I'll be doing some reading on the links you all gave me, so that I can do things properly when time allows).

I don't think of that as a kludge.  I think of that as a solution.

For me, I keep my CM15A plugged into an outlet in my breakfast nook.   That outlet seems to be the most "central" in my house.  At that outlet, I can "see" all X10 powerline commands from all other controllers in my house, and from that outlet, X10 powerline commands can reach all modules in my house.

BTW, if you truly have outlets that the top is one phase and the bottom is the other phase, I believe that is a code violation.

[JeffVolp]

BTW, if you truly have outlets that the top is one phase and the bottom is the other phase, I believe that is a code violation.

I haven't found anything in the NEC saying this is against the code.  The code does state that the kitchen counter area must be supplied with two 20A circuits.  I remember years ago that split wiring those receptacles was encouraged so two high-current loads could be plugged into the same duplex receptacle.  Of course, that is harder to do than just daisy-chaining 12-2 to several outlets, so it was probably an "upgrade feature".

Jeff

[Walt2]

I know someone who failed an electric inspection for doing this.  I was going by that, and not exactly quoting something written.

The "code", lately, seems to be more to protect idiots, and I can see such getting 240v unexpectedly out of a 120v outlet with some creative plugging.