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Author Topic: Socket Rockets Rock!!!!  (Read 4970 times)

G. L.Tirebiter

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Socket Rockets Rock!!!!
« on: October 04, 2007, 12:26:09 PM »

Good Day!

This is apparenty my INITIAL post so I hope its good. INITIALly I was afraid to make a post (fearing it may be moved and I may be chastised - BTW - where is the X10 hardware forum?)

But lately I've seen a LOT of improvement here and new support by X10  -  so I've decided to ask my INITIAL question:

I've been using socket rockets for years. They don't have code wheels - but unlike other S*******e products they don't seem to lose their address (and revert to A1) during power fluctuations.


BUT I'm using them with compact fluorescents and the owners manual SPECIFICALLY says NOT to use them with fluorescents .


So the question is WHY? They don't dim, they don't suffer from "local control" problems, so why does X10 say not to use them with the bulb of the future?

I noticed the other night that they came on at dusk (as they should), they were silent and I haven't had to reprogram them EVER! Wow. What a great piece of (inexpensive - thanks X10) equipment!!

I've seen some real high tech posts from others about the CM15a in the AHP forum, so I thought I might get a technical answer about this.

Thanks,

Umm... George?

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Crush_That_Dwarf,_Hand_Me_the_Pliers )

P.S - I am NOT recommending to use X10 products in a manner conflicting with the owners manual.
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steven r

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Re: Socket Rockets Rock!!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2007, 12:46:17 PM »

"How Can You be Two Places When You're Not Anywhere at All?" I loved Firesign Theater also.
Which album has the line "Don't eat with your hands, son, use your entrenching tool!".

With regard to using CFL bulbs with Socket Rockets I can't see what the problem would be. In fact many here do use them together.

Just follow the instructions with the CFLs to the letter. I did see an article where a CFL burnt at the base.
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_9058.aspx

Personally I don't like their light output myself as well as I like to be able to dim my lights and have enough things creating noice for X10 so I haven't switched yet.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 05:29:49 PM by steven r »
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G. L.Tirebiter

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Re: Socket Rockets Rock!!!!
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2007, 12:58:21 PM »

Apparently, you can't get there from here!

Your question:

http://www.firesigntheatre.com/albums/album.php?album=dctd


I HAVE had a X10 knock off (First Alert) appliance module destroy some compact fluorescents. It kept "sorta" turing them on and burnt them up. No such problem with the socket rockets.


I'm miss dimming, but I have the white bulbs (really white) and I'm cheap.

G
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Socket Rockets Rock!!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2007, 02:34:03 PM »

Apparently, you can't get there from here!

Your question:

http://www.firesigntheatre.com/albums/album.php?album=dctd


I HAVE had a X10 knock off (First Alert) appliance module destroy some compact fluorescents. It kept "sorta" turing them on and burnt them up. No such problem with the socket rockets.


I'm miss dimming, but I have the white bulbs (really white) and I'm cheap.

G


Appliance modules, including X-10's, have what's called "local sensing".  By flipping the power switch on the connected appliance off, then on again, the module will turn on.  The small "off" sense current required to support this feature can cause flickering of fluorescent lamps and in your case may have caused overheating in the CFL electronics, but there are instances reported when CFLs have just burned up by themselves due to some defect.  Socket Rockets don't have local sensing.

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dave w

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Re: Socket Rockets Rock!!!!
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2007, 04:49:58 PM »

I've been using socket rockets for years.

BUT I'm using them with compact fluorescents and the owners manual SPECIFICALLY says NOT to use them with fluorescents .

So the question is WHY? They don't dim, they don't suffer from "local control" problems, so why does X10 say not to use them with the bulb of the future?

P.S - I am NOT recommending to use X10 products in a manner conflicting with the owners manual.
This is probably a COB (cover our but*s) statement from X10.

As pointed out, the Socket Rocket has no local control, nor can it dim. BUT it does still use a triac and triacs do not like highly inductive or reactive loads, unless they are properly bypassed (snubbed) for the specific type of load (either inductive OR reactive).

Most CFLs because of their transistor power supply probably look resistive to the triac, which is what the triacs like when no snubber network is used. Therefore, most CFLs “play nice” with the Socket Rocket.

However there are still “Circleline” style round fluorescent tube lights (“halo lights”) with inductive ballasts, made to screw into a standard light socket (or a Socket Rocket by a user choosing to ignore warnings). The Socket Rocket and these round fluorescent lights that use a “choke” or “magnetic”or “transformer”or “inductive” etc. etc. ballast,  may NOT play nice.

So how does X10 instruct the customer (a few of whom are lawyers ) which fluorescent lights a Socket Rocket can be used with, and which ones can not???  The simple answer is; X10 doesn't, they can’t.

Instead, they have to say “Do not use with any fluorescent lights”. I do believe that carefully conducted, long term testing, under controlled conditions, can tell you who will play nice with who.  (Familiar disclaimer follows) I am NOT recommending to use X10 products in a manner conflicting with the owners manual.
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G. L.Tirebiter

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Re: Socket Rockets Rock!!!!
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2007, 05:17:39 PM »

Thanks,

Great answer and good to know!

Too bad I can't recommend anything, but it sure is nice to have something that works with compact fluorescents, is audibly silent, holds its house and unit code - and doesn't require yet another "wall wart".

I do seem to remember early production models of the socket rocket had a problem when used upside down with an incandescent. I believe the glue melted. I don't know if this was ever fixed.

AFAIK, SH still recommends not using their similar (but much more expensive) Insteon modules upside down.

Thanks again for the replies,

G
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 05:21:29 PM by G. L.Tirebiter »
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Brian H

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Re: Socket Rockets Rock!!!!
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2007, 06:21:31 PM »

You may still get powerline noise in the X10 signal area.
I have MaxlLite CFLs that alone make no detectable powerline noise as tested by an ELK ESM-1 and a Smarthome TesterLinc. Make up to 1 Volt noise when controlled by a Socket Rocket. I have seen other brand work 100% with a Socket Rocket and some make some noise, but nothing compaired to the MaxLites.
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Socket Rockets Rock!!!!
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2007, 08:12:03 PM »

I use CFLs in all my Socket Rockets without any problem. They are used in all basement overhead lights and in my "Christmas" closet upstairs where all the decorations are stored.
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I don't SELL this stuff... BUT I sure do ENJOY using it!!!

Brian H

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Re: Socket Rockets Rock!!!!
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2007, 06:50:08 AM »

Me too. Seems it is certain brands that are a problem. That brand also flickers for me on a Smarthome Appliance module that has much lower sensing current than an X10 one.
My Socket Rockets have controlled low wattage LED Lights with no problems also.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2007, 06:14:06 PM by Brian H »
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Puck

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Re: Socket Rockets Rock!!!!
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2007, 11:16:58 AM »

Good Day!

This is apparenty my INITIAL post so I hope its good. INITIALly I was afraid to make a post (fearing it may be moved and I may be chastised - BTW - where is the X10 hardware forum?)

But lately I've seen a LOT of improvement here and new support by X10  -  so I've decided to ask my INITIAL question:

BTW, welcome to the forum G. L.Tirebiter.

For general X10 hardware posts you did pick the right category of Automating Your House under the General Home Automation section.

Of course problems with general X10 hardware would best be discussed in the next category down Troubleshooting Automation Problems.

As you see, specific topics like ActiveHome Pro, Cameras, Security and Entertainment have their own section for their X10 hardware & software items.

Cheers
« Last Edit: October 05, 2007, 11:18:43 AM by Puck »
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