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[PajamaGuy]

I learn best from example - so I'm asking the best for an example.

My HouseCode is "L".  Security UnitCode is "5".  Back door entrance lamp switch (WS467) is "L7".
AHP timer has "L7" on @ 75% from Dusk-to-Dawn.

This morning when some newbee idiot (myself) let the dogs out without disarming, and after I nearly broke my toe scrambling for a keychain to turn the damn thing and the security lights off, I found the back door entrance lamp was OFF and it got me to thinking.

How can I make sure the units that are supposed to be on - are on - after an all-lights-off command?
What is the trigger?  Should I use a Phantom?  How?  How about flags?  Would I have to write one for every security sensor?

I'm really trying to understand the how's and why's.  Any help will be appreciated!

[Puck]

Under normal conditions, meaning after the normal 4 minute time-out of the alarm & flashing lights, the lights will be left in the ON state. However, when you intervene and hit the disarm before that time-out then I guess the lights can stay at whatever state they were in when the disarm is received.

So if you are not at home, all the Lx security lights will remain in the ON state after an alarm; and when you are at home then you can always turn the ones you want on or off.

However, who really wants manual steps... There is no way to trigger a macro from an ALL LIGHTS ON or ALL UNITS OFF signal. So the practical option is if you have the OnAlert plugin to go with AHP. If you do, you can create a single dummy module/macro that gets called whenever your security is Armed and a sensor gets triggered. The macro would have a delay (greater than the 4 minutes of the DS7000 alarm cycle) and then it would set all your security lights back to the way you want them (ON / OFF / Dimmed to a certain percentage).

Of course with all OnAlert triggered macros, they require a 24/7 PC connected to the CM15A.

[Tuicemen]

As Puck pointed out macros can't be triggered from an "All On\All Off"
Since I don't use my DS7000 to trigger lights I haven't run into this problem!
How ever you could use a macro similar to ones posted for power failure and resumes!
These will involve using flags and possibly phantom modules depending on how complex your setup is!
Doing An Advanced Search for "power failure" should turn up one!
The trigger however would be different possibly a KR10A or SH624 Disarm  (of coarse you'd have to always have one handy)
If you can't seem to locate an example post back and Puck or I will post a simple example unless someone beats us to it!

[spam4us]

Puck said:  There is no way to trigger a macro from an ALL LIGHTS ON or ALL UNITS OFF signal.

Not quite true. Look at the end of my post with the diagram located at
http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=13487.15

    Hook a UM506 to a PF284.  You only need one UM506 in your case.  Set it to the same housecode as the DS7000.  The UM506 responds to an all unit off from the DS7000 that will trip a PF284 to send out a powerline address. The PF284 doesn’t respond to X10 signals. It can only send them.

   You can write a macro that is triggered by the PF284 address. Once triggered, put in a delay like Puck mentioned for 4 1/2 minutes then send out an ON command to the units you want to turn back on.  The only "gotcha" here is that the PF284 plc might get stepped on by the DS7000 on/off commands.

[Puck]

Puck said:  There is no way to trigger a macro from an ALL LIGHTS ON or ALL UNITS OFF signal.

Not quite true. Look at the end of my post with the diagram located at
http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=13487.15

There are always ways to get around any obstacle; but the TRUTH remains that a Macro cannot be triggered by an ALL LIGHTS ON or ALL LIGHTS OFF signal.

[Tuicemen]

spam4us Nice diagram! True your suggestion/idea will work! However i think PajamaGuy was looking for a software solution but your method maybe the the solution he needs!

There are always ways to get around any obstacle; but the TRUTH remains that a Macro cannot be triggered by an ALL LIGHTS ON or ALL LIGHTS OFF signal.

And therre are always exceptions!
Here is An interesting find Puck I'm sure you & many will find this info helpful!

I just tested and an all lights off signal as well as ALL ON from a security key flob (KR10A)
It will trigger a macro  so AHP handles All Off\On codes from security devices differently!

I never tested an All ON/OFF from a SH624 as mine is at the cottage! perhaps you can test this and report your findings!
PajamaGuy  to answer some more of your questions.

• No you will not need to create a macro for each sensor but you may need to create one for each device you want reset!
• You will need to create a[/color] phantom module so you won't need to write multiple large macros
 

• The phantom becomes the trigger for your reset macro in this macro you specify the modules you want reset based on conditions (flags,alarm status)
• You could possibly also use the same macro after a power outage to reset modules to there proper state!
• You may then create small macros which simply activate the phantom for each KR10A or SH624 Disarm!
[/b][/color]

[Puck]

I just tested and an all lights off signal as well as ALL ON from a security key flob (KR10A)
It will trigger a macro  so AHP handles All Off\On codes from security devices differently!

Hey Tuicemen: Are you sure the signals from the KR10A are ALL Lights ON & ALL Lights OFF?

When I look at the PLC signal transceived through my DS7000, it is just a single address ON & OFF that matches the housecode & unitcode set on the DS7000; and the single lamp module that matches that address goes on & off and no other lamp modules on the same house code are affected.

When I look at it from an RF signal via OnALert, there is no X10 address that appears in the activity monitor, just the name of the device with "Security Light On" or "Security Light Off" appended.

So I'm not sure I'm following what you tried. Is your macro a standard X10 signal triggerable or an OnAlert triggerable?

[Tuicemen]

Puck I'm just using the buttons on the KR10A! they state Lights On or Lights off!
When I went to school adding an "s" to "Light" meant more then one!

When I create a macro using security key flob as the trigger I tested what stated "Security Light ON\Off" !
There seems to be some discrepancy as the flob states Lights and AHP states Security Light

As I don't Have a DS7000 set up here or a  SH624 (only at the cottage) I can't fully test that's why I Asked you to!
If I remember the SH624 has an all lights ON/OFF button, what it actually sends I can't say for sure!
As You stated the Activity monitor isn't much help!

[Puck]

Puck I'm just using the buttons on the KR10A! they state Lights On or Lights off!
When I went to school adding an "s" to "Light" meant more then one!

LOL I think they assumed everyone would have all their security lights set to the same unit code. 

Those 2 keys on the remote are security coded signals so they cannot be transceived directly into an X10 PLC signal. When the DS7000 receives the signals, it converts them to its single housecode/unitcode ON or OFF (e.g. B1 ON or B1 OFF).

The OnAlert Macro for them just sees the security signal as the trigger (0x42 for Security Light ON, 0x43 for Security Light OFF); so I don't think they are seen as ALL Lights ON or ALL Lights OFF. At least that is not how they are seen with the activity monitor when converted by the DS7000.

[Tuicemen]

Understood!
Now does the SH624 plampad send a  (0x42 for Security Light ON, 0x43 for Security Light OFF) or an actual all lights ON/Off?
Since PajamaGuy is tring to set up a reset for his security devices it will be a benifit for him to know what all security buttons he can use to activate the reset. It appears that the lights off button from a KR10A will work(with a delay) will the lights off button from a SH624 work too?

[Puck]

The Security Lights On & Security Lights Off from the SH624 show the same signals as the KR10A.

[Tuicemen]

The Security Lights On & Security Lights Off from the SH624 show the same signals as the KR10A.

OK great!
So when PajamaGuy hits lights off via a security remote it sends a signal to the DS7000 which turns all Security lights OFF
AHP also sees the lights off signal from the remotes and a macro can be triggered from it to switch needed security lights back on (a reset based on conditions)!
AHP isn't acting on the signal from the DS7000 but the signal from a KR10A or SH624
So a simple macro for  PajamaGuy would be:

• Trigger KR10A security light off
• Condition: if time after dusk  & time before dawn
• Delay 1 min (time for DS7000 to send all off)
• Turn on security light L7 @75%

[/b] [/color]
Of coarse that would only apply for the one security light if he had more or other lights he wished to come back on he would need to use flags and possibly Else's!
Also if he wished any of his security remotes to trigger then the trigger would be a phantom and each security remote would trigger a macro to turn on the phantom!
Logic dictates this should work but AHP and logic don't always go hand and hand!   Hope that gives you, PajamaGuy  a starting point! Of coarse that is if I read your original post correctly!

[spam4us]

My HouseCode is "L".  Security UnitCode is "5".  Back door entrance lamp switch (WS467) is "L7".
AHP timer has "L7" on @ 75% from Dusk-to-Dawn.

How can I make sure the units that are supposed to be on - are on - after an all-lights-off command?

Do you really want the "units that are supposed to be on" going on and off when the DS7000 is tripped?
Do you want your back door entrance lamp going on & off when the DS7000 is tripped?

If not, trying to read into your post, it seems that your concern is that some modules that you want to stay on are being turned off when the DS7000 is tripped.  You can simply change the house code of those modules to a different code so that they are not effected by the DS7000.

[PajamaGuy]

I think I'm beginning to understand ˝ of this stuff    ...and thanks for the advice!
Spam4Us asks an interesting question, 'Do I want the back door entrance light flashing with the rest of the "L" lights?'  Well, first - I think the DS700 only flashes lamp Modules, and not wall switches or appliance modules, so it wouldn't flash anyway.  So my initial problem statement was flawed.

And to be clear - When the DS7000 triggers the alarm, all lamp modules with the same HouseCode as the DS7000 will flash on & off (full bright 100%) - and when the 4 minutes is over, all lamp modules stay on @ 100%.  Pressing "Lights-Off" on the keyfob after an alarm, sends an "off" to ALL light modules that are on the same HouseCode as the DS7000.  HOWEVER - that signal only happens ONCE, and only after an alarm.  When not after an alarm, pressing the keyfob's lights-off only causes a lights-off to those lamp modules with the same HouseCode AND UnitCode of the DS7000.  The Lights-ON press of a keyfob always & only sends a Lights-ON to the lamp modules having the same HC & UC as the DS7000.  (I expect the "Security Lights" buttons on the Security Remote operate the same - but I'll have to check)

I assume (but I'll check) that after the 4 minutes, with all lamp modules remaining on at 100%, signals from AHP timers & macros, as well as signals from other timers will continue to operate sequencing as programmed, however their starting state will be 100% ON.

So, if we wanted to reset the lamp modules that have the same HC as the DS7000 after an alarm's 4-minute run, we'd have to know the state of each lamp module before the alarm was tripped.  Since it would be a real project to maintain a database of the states of each lamp module over time, and until someome writes a utility that would take a snapshot of a module(s) state - say every 30 min, I guess the easiest would be to create a macro set an "After Alarm Return-To-State" for each of the lamp modules.  - That might be fun??

[Puck]

Well, first - I think the DS700 only flashes lamp Modules, and not wall switches or appliance modules, so it wouldn't flash anyway.

If the wall switch is a Lamp Module type, then it will flash as well.

Pressing "Lights-Off" on the keyfob after an alarm, sends an "off" to ALL light modules that are on the same HouseCode as the DS7000.  HOWEVER - that signal only happens ONCE, and only after an alarm.  When not after an alarm, pressing the keyfob's lights-off only causes a lights-off to those lamp modules with the same HouseCode AND UnitCode of the DS7000.

Good observation... this is Helpful information.

I assume (but I'll check) that after the 4 minutes, with all lamp modules remaining on at 100%, signals from AHP timers & macros, as well as signals from other timers will continue to operate sequencing as programmed, however their starting state will be 100% ON.

True. Your macros and timers will continue as normal. But if you use a condition based on a module's state, then it will affect the execution of a macro.

So, if we wanted to reset the lamp modules that have the same HC as the DS7000 after an alarm's 4-minute run, we'd have to know the state of each lamp module before the alarm was tripped.  Since it would be a real project to maintain a database of the states of each lamp module over time, and until someome writes a utility that would take a snapshot of a module(s) state - say every 30 min, I guess the easiest would be to create a macro set an "After Alarm Return-To-State" for each of the lamp modules.  - That might be fun??

AHP will keep track of the state of your lights, but not if they get turned on manually (unless of course they are 2-way or provide a self address X10 signal). For low end X10 lamp type modules & switches, there is no way to know with 100% accuracy their state all the time.

You can propably reduce the number of lamps that you are concerned about after an alarm. If you are home and it went off, then you can just turn off the ones you want. When you are away, that is when you have a defined number of lights that you want to remain on (probably based on time of day), and all the rest you want turned off. Most likely this would only require a few flags and/or monitored modules.