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[paizano1]

first post, thanks for reading,  i was wondering if anybody has tried to couple phases with the use of 2 transciever modules. I thought instead of coupling the phases, why not just use 2 transcievers set to same house code on different phases of your house wiring.

[Brian H]

Both would only send RF received commands to the phase that that are connected to and where in range to receive . So any power line signals would not be sent to the other phase. Also the TM751 doesn't even have a power line receiver in it and can only be turned on and off by an RF signal. Like from a Palmpad remote or Motion Sensor to name a few.

[dave w]

Piggybacking on Brian's comments.

To do this, you should use RR501 transceivers. They are "polite" therefore you avoid both units transmitting at the same time and the commands being lost in powerline collisions. I assume you never plan to use "plug-in" controllers like the "Maxi Console", Mini Console", "Mini Timer", or  CM15A and AHP, etc.  Any controller that transmits directly to the powerline will bypass the two transceivers and the command will not get coupled to both phases. Also as Brian pointed out, for phase coupling, you are relying on BOTH transceivers, ALWAYS receiving a remotes command. Otherwise, the command will not be coupled to both phases, and that (both tranceivers receiving the remotes signal) may not happen.

In otherwords it will work, but only about as well as a wet band-aid.

Addedum: Sorry paizano1, brain was not fully engaged before I dumped the clutch. As Dave X10 is poining out, you could use one TM751 and one RR501 rather than two RR501's.

[HA Dave]

... i was wondering if anybody has tried to couple phases with the use of 2 transciever modules.

I've tried it... and I am sure many others have tried it too.

Using a TM751 on one phase and a RR501 on the other will get-you-by... on a very small 16 code setup. Then if you can figure out your circuits (and get another TM751)... maybe pick-up (up to) 16 more on "selected" receptacles. At least that's how it worked for me. Like Brian H and dave w pointed out... such a setup has limitations.

Although I later purchased a passive "dryer plug" phase coupler for myself... so I could use AHP (meaning BVC). I used a similar setup as I described above for my step-daughters apartment where I had very little control over the circuits.

[paizano1]

well i appreciate the information, my concern was that i have had no luck with the cm15. i know that is for another post but i did use the information about the capacitor, 18uh choke and fuse.  built it into a 220 plug and plugged it into the outlet in garage for welder.  After doing that pretty much all reception failed completely.(remotes, ahp, ect..)  Nothing would respond.  have since removed the plug and tried with just the capacitor,  results were better, but still not great.  I am thinking about a coupler/repeater but was looking for something different.  Not a better way, just a different way. As for the cm15 i have done all the mods possible, antenna from tm751, checked which phase it was on, still only about 10% reliable at this point.  I am thinking could be computer, of course have tried second computer with same results.  Anyway thanks again everybody for all your help

[originalevil]

I had somewhat better results with the CM15A, but I never had the range that I needed, so, the week before last, I ordered an XTB-IIR and a V572RF32. I know you don't want to spend the money to do it, but the combination of those two devices has made my (hardware) setup bullet proof. It works so well, in fact, that I am replacing the majority of light switches in my home and about half of my power outlets with X10 pro modules (the other outlets are all ground fault outlets).

[originalevil]

I'd also like to point out that my first attempt at phase coupling was the Smarthome SignaLinc 4816A2, which was a complete waste of $40. When I added the XTB-IIR, all of my devices started working like magic. When I plugged in the V572RF32, all of my RF signals were suddenly received. Voodoo, man... voodoo.

[JeffVolp]

Not voodoo...   It's called engineering.  And, never stop trying to make it even better.

Thank you for the feedback!

Jeff

[paizano1]

again the info has been great, well i did buy the xpcp from x-10 ( of course more expensive then other sites but was scared of different product) anyway installed with two seperate breakers on each phase, into junction box with xpcp. And as you could probably guess it worked just as bad as my home built one. all modules stopped responding, for the most part.  At this point money is not a problem, i would be interested in knowing what the ( XTB-11R, and V572RF32 ) are.  Just another note, i shut the breakers to the coupler and presto the units work. remote, minitimer, all work. ahp some devices work, some don't. 

[paizano1]

i just did some research and found the answer to my previous ? about the xtb, v572,  no need to answer thanks

[JeffVolp]

A .1uF in series with a low-resistance 18uH inductor usually works very well for a passive coupler.  The XPCP has twin tuned circuits, so part tolerances are not an issue if it is properly adjusted at the factory.  Another advantage of the XPCP is that the signal can be inverted on the opposite phase to give a strong signal to any 240V X10 devices that straddle both phases.  That is rare in most homes, so coupling the same signal to both phases should work fine.

The fact that things don't work when the coupler is installled may mean one of your phases has a strong signal sucker or noise source.  Adding the coupler allows that problem device (or devices) to interfere with communication on the first phase.  I wrote some troubleshooting tutorials that may help:  http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm

Jeff

[paizano1]

well stupid me, after some checking around. I found the problem to be that i had a transceiver plugged in the master bed, on one phase, and the cm15 plugged by the computer on other phase.  Instructions weren't very clear about removal of all other transceivers.  The problem occurred when the coupler was turned on the RF signal from the remotes must have been colliding with each other. after turning off the coupler the remotes would work again.  To verify the problem i removed the trans. from the bedroom and tried the remotes with coupler on and everything works good now.  Main problem now is that ahp only triggers certain lights if i use RF commands instead of plc ones.  again that is for a different post.  The knowledge you guys have is incredible, thanks for the help

[Brian H]

The TM751 is not polite and will step on anything on the line. The CM15A and RR501 should be polite and wait for a quiet time.

[ciaccia]

I had somewhat better results with the CM15A, but I never had the range that I needed, so, the week before last, I ordered an XTB-IIR and a V572RF32. I know you don't want to spend the money to do it, but the combination of those two devices has made my (hardware) setup bullet proof. It works so well, in fact, that I am replacing the majority of light switches in my home and about half of my power outlets with X10 pro modules (the other outlets are all ground fault outlets).

Now can you still program timers and macros with the V572RF32?   Would you still use your CM15A? With this or does new software for timers and macros come with the V572RF32?

[Puck]

Now can you still program timers and macros with the V572RF32?   Would you still use your CM15A? With this or does new software for timers and macros come with the V572RF32?

The V572RF32 only receives X10 RF signals and places them on the power lines. It does not have software that executes macros or timers; you still need the CM15A and AHP for this.