Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dave4720]

I think I screwed up on my thinking.

I have a room that I wanted to use a MS16A pointing out the window to control the overhead light (via a RR501).  That way, someone triggering the sensor outside would light the internal room light via a WS12A.

Now that I think of it, I think there is a problem.  Say I am in the room and have turned on the overhead light.  Something outdoors triggers the sensor, causing an ON command.  No change, since the light is already ON.  However, X minutes later, after the delay, the sensor issues an OFF command.  Then, the lights I want ON turn OFF.

Right?  Any work arounds?

BTW, is there a “scenario” evaluation category where people could post their scenario ideas for review?  This would allow others to critique that way one THINKS their setup would work and discover flaws in the system design.  I now have many items that I don’t think will work as I intended without bugs.

[Puck]

I have a room that I wanted to use a MS16A pointing out the window to control the overhead light (via a RR501).  That way, someone triggering the sensor outside would light the internal room light via a WS12A.

The motion sensor actually detects a change in radiated heat as opposed to motion, so there should be no detection of outside motion through a window.

[Dave4720]

Not sure of where you are going here, but my partial setup works fine.  I have the sensor setting on the windowsill pointing outside, and a lamp plugged into the RR501.  I go outside and the sensor catches me moving past the window every time, and the lamp lights, then goes off after the delay.  That part works great.

I just haven’t installed the wall switch to control the overhead light because of the bug I mentioned before.

[HA Dave]

I have a room that I wanted to use a MS16A pointing out the window to control the overhead light (via a RR501).  That way, someone triggering the sensor outside would light the internal room light via a WS12A.

The motion sensor actually detects a change in radiated heat as opposed to motion, so there should be no detection of outside motion through a window.

I've used the sensors between the exterior door and strom door.. because the sensors can't see through the glass.

[dave w]

Dave4720

We are still wondering how you can get a motion sensor to work through glass. As Puck and Dave_X10 point out, the motion sensors sense infrared radiation, but glass filters out infrared. These little mysteries are intriguing.

In answer to your original question, Yes the interior light will be turned back OFF when the motion sensor times out, leaving you standing there in the dark.

Not a lot of ways out of this, other than some form of conditional control, overriding the OFF signal from the motion sensor.

You are basically talking home automation. Probably least expensive is the CM15A and AHP software. One idea might be a second motion sensor in your room. Using AHP conditional macros, motion outside would turn on the room light, but if motion was also detected in the room, AHP would ignore the OFF signal from the motion detector.

[X10 Ken]

To be a little more specific about using AHP,

The motion sensor on signal is set to start an AHP macro.  You set AHP to ignore the motion off signal.

The AHP macro starts by checking the current state of the room light.  If currently on, do nothing (or some other action of your choosing).

If room light is not currently on, turn it on, delay some number of minutes/seconds, then turn it off.

The only catch is that AHP has to know if the room light is on.  This means you have turned it on using an X10 command, or you have a wall switch which reports its status when you manually turn it on.

Ken
===

[Dave4720]

This is what I get when I try to think with a cold and a foggy head.

I have developed a new glasslike material made of a combination of transparent aluminum and clear unobtainium.  It lets a sensor “see” though it.

Or to be honest - and more stupid - I stuffed the sensor where I thought was between an outdoor window and the sliding indoor window.  Upon further review, there was no outside window, just the outside screen, so I was not actually looking through glass.

[HA Dave]

........ I think there is a problem.  Say I am in the room and have turned on the overhead light.  Something outdoors triggers the sensor, causing an ON command.  No change, since the light is already ON.  However, X minutes later, after the delay, the sensor issues an OFF command.  Then, the lights I want ON turn OFF.

Yep an inherent part of the device. It can cause a problem... or be used as a feature as well.

I had (at one time) put a motion sensor between the back door and the stormdoor at my stepdaughter's apartment. The sensor turned on a hallway light just outside the kitchen. So if she entered her back [kitchen] door the hall light would come on (and light her way for enough time as she could feel her hands if needed). Or if someone was to attempt to jimmy the back door a light would come on... that would not only hopefully scare away an intruder... but would have also alerted her.

The part that made this setup useful... was that she normally would never use the hallway light. Maybe if you switch to a small lamp in the windowsill or an undercounter light or lamp in the next room you might get a better result.

[Dave4720]

I think maybe I have it.

Install a 2-way mechanical switch, which is basically a SPDT switch.  The “UP” position throw is wired full-time HOT, the “DOWN” position throw is wired to the output of a switch module (other side of it also connected to full-time HOT) set to match the sensor and transceiver, the center pole goes to the overhead room light.

In the “UP” or “ON” position, the overhead light illuminates and does not care what occurs at the disconnected other throw position.  In the “DOWN” or “AUTO” position, the overhead light is controlled via the sensor.  Upon turning the mechanical switch down to “AUTO” - yes, if the sensor had already turned on the X10 switch, the light will NOT go dark, but will do so after the sensor delay times out.  If the sensor was not tripped, the overhead light will go off immediately.

Yes, I will have to get creative in placing both switches in a single-gang box, but they do make boxes with extra room to one side for more “junk”, even though they take up one gang position.

Solution !?  Sensor lights indoor room lights, but does not affect my “override” ON switch position.

[dave w]

This is what I get when I try to think with a cold and a foggy head.

I have developed a new glasslike material made of a combination of transparent aluminum and clear unobtainium.  It lets a sensor “see” though it.

o-o-o-oh Sounds like an investment opportunity to me. Perhaps we could get some stimulus money and go in to production?