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Author Topic: Frustration  (Read 9881 times)

Elfmaze

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Frustration
« on: April 10, 2009, 07:20:01 PM »

 I got my whole system wired up.   Apparently the only place i can plug a lamp into is the same outlet the AHP controler is plugged into.   NO other outlet in the house will work.

can't say much for the phase of the wiring but AHP said i shouldn't use any of house code A because of unknowns and random other red blocks appear around the codes i have tested.

I do have Multiple CFL lights throughout the house. And i have UPS's for the computer along with power conditioners for my amps in the same room...  :(  but the X10 devices are not going thru any of the conditioners,  they are straight into the wall.
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Elfmaze

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2009, 07:44:43 PM »

Additionally it doensn't appear to be using the wait command.   I made a simple macro,   Light on,  Wait 10 seconds,  Light off.    Clicked the "Run Macro" Button.   The light turns on but never turns off.

EDIT:  macro problem appears to be a problem of not "purging" the running macro timers.  who knows how many macro timers were running that it didn't want to run.  the timers work now! at least preliminary
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 08:20:21 PM by Elfmaze »
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2009, 08:16:32 PM »

Sounds like a phase problem, there's a lot of post here about phase problems.
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Jsnlong

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2009, 08:21:32 PM »

Yea phase and noise problems

Look for a phase coupler. There are allot to choose from. Here is one link
http://www.smarthome.com/_/ProductResults.aspx?Ntt=phase%20coupler

Noise problems also. After you get a phase coupler. I would try stuff again and see what happens. If you still got problems try to unplug things like TV, Cell phone charger, CFL's, list can go on and one. Do it one at a time and see if it helps. Then if you unplug something and the problems get better. Buy a filter for it.
http://www.smarthome.com/_/ProductResults.aspx?Ntt=Fliter
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Elfmaze

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2009, 09:05:42 PM »

On the software side again. Does X10 have problems running two macros at once?

example of my two macro string.
Macro1:

Sunrise lamp on
wait 5 seconds
Macro 2 trigger(dummy appliance module to trigger the second macro) on
wait 5 seconds
Macro 2 trigger off

Macro 2:
Bedroom overhead on
wake up speech(another dummy module) ON
wait 5
Sunrise light off
wake up speech off

The two macros will work great by them selves.  And number one will trigger number two.  But Number Two fails to fully execute if triggered by Number 1.

Btw i need the two macros becasue i need an 8 hour delay, two macros 4 hours each
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Jsnlong

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2009, 09:22:01 PM »

I don't have trouble running 2 at a time. but try this on yours........  I moved the macro 2 trigger off to the macro 2 and then added some zero delays ...... macros like delays even if its 0 sec. Just gives x10 signal time to send before the next one does. SIDE NOTE.....


Sunrise lamp on
wait 5 seconds
Macro 2 trigger(dummy appliance module to trigger the second macro) on
end of macro

Macro 2:
Bedroom overhead on
wait 0
wake up speech(another dummy module) ON
wait 5
Sunrise light off
wait 0
wake up speech off
wait 0
macro 2 trigger off
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WildBill47

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2009, 04:43:31 AM »

I got my whole system wired up.   Apparently the only place i can plug a lamp into is the same outlet the AHP controler is plugged into.   NO other outlet in the house will work.

can't say much for the phase of the wiring but AHP said i shouldn't use any of house code A because of unknowns and random other red blocks appear around the codes i have tested.

I do have Multiple CFL lights throughout the house. And i have UPS's for the computer along with power conditioners for my amps in the same room...  :(  but the X10 devices are not going thru any of the conditioners,  they are straight into the wall.

Remember that the devices interferring with your X-10 signals don't have to be plugged in to the same socket as your modules, for example, I have a Monster Power Manager for my Home Theater and it just sucks X-10 signals righ off the wires in a sort of random pattern, but my guess is they are plugs wired downstream from the power manager, same for my APC UPS on my computer.

http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_ordering.htm Here is a link to a DIY or they will build one for you. Not UL rated, check your home indurance policy, many void e;ectrial fire coverage if using non-UL rated devices!
http://www.x10.com/pro/automation/xppf.htm -- Here is an X-10 Plug in Filter to isolate signal suckers only good for 5A loads.
http://www.x10.com/pro/automation/xpf.htm -- Another X-10 made unit good for up to 20A, given that any given typical circuit is limited to 15Am this should really do well. Electrician required or highly suggested!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=400018580465 Here id a phase couple that does not require an eledtrician.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

What you really need to do is see what your actual problem is:
1. Some Device plugged in that is generating noise that messes up X-10 (Solution: Filter that device)
2. Some device plugged in is sucking up the X-10 Signals off the line, same solition as #1
3. Multi-phase issues, controls on one phase and modules on anoher. (Get a phase coupler)
4. You are getting Noise or X-10 signals external to your house. (Get a whole home noise isolator)

You can spend a lot of money finding out, or use more "brute force" methods.

1. Modules not responding
   a. Make sure the module works
   b. Try the modules different sockets (May be phase issue or noise/signal sucker issue)

2. X-10 modules coming on / off without commands
   a. Clear your logs, using the AHP Find Other Computers to see if legit commands are entering your house.
   b. will likely need a whole home filter (electrician needed unless you are very savvy)

3. Motion detectors or other RF modules don't work from their intended location
   a. Try moving them closer, if they work, then you likely have a signal strangth issue, get a repeater or add home brew antenna's/

There are a lot of potential issues and answers to all that I am aware of, the cost of the fix often depends on your ability to make the mod yourself or have to buy a solution.

Good Luck!

Bill

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Brian H

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2009, 06:24:50 AM »

Many devices as mentioned can absorb X10 signals or make power line noise.
My APC BX1000 UPS absorbs lots of the X10 power line signals. To it the X10 signal looks like noise to be removed. I have a 10 AMP filter on my UPS. Some filters can be as bad. So one made for X10 use is best to use. Mine is a Smarthome 10 amp one and ACT makes a 15 Amp one if the load is fairly large.
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Elfmaze

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2009, 07:35:43 AM »

Ok i will try the system with all the CFL's in the house off today when i get home from work.  Hopefully the sun will still be out.   I have a feeling I'm going to find its the massive power conditioners i have on my Bass amps and computer.     the phase couplers that go on the drier plug are clever.

Jsnlong:
My Macros will still not work,  i tried putting the wait 0's in there to no avail. The program seems so simple there aren't too many ways i could mess it up.  I just need to better understand how it thinks.  To bad there is no DEbugging mode where you can walk the macro thru line by line and see what its trying to do.

I think i will try some suggestions i have found digging thru archives.   IE.  Moving the macro trigger to another house code,  And setting the send "on" command instead of 100% bright.  I don't see how either would directly effect what I'm doing but hey,  voodoo magic works if you believe in it right?

« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 09:13:23 AM by Elfmaze »
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Elfmaze

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2009, 04:33:24 PM »

those two settings did nothing BUT running the macros from the computer make them work.  Can't run them thru the module.  Maby has to do with my theoretical noise problem?
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2009, 10:46:38 AM »

I strongly suggest you get the noise problems under control before trying to get macros working.  Noise can screw up an X10 house faster than you can say "BOO!!!".
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Elfmaze

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2009, 11:03:32 AM »

Working on the noise.  everything unplugged and i'm still haveing issues.  so still working on it :(

The good news is 90% of what i need is in my room.   So i can get the system running and expand from there,   rather than chasing ghosts in the electrical system and not having anything going.
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HA Dave

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2009, 11:14:11 AM »

... can't say much for the phase of the wiring ..

I strongly suggest you get the noise problems under control before trying to get macros working.

Dan Lawrence is correct! X10 is a heck of a lot of fun... but only when it works. It is extremely easy to operate a light from across the room. However the larger and more complex your setup.. the more attention needs to be given to your powerlines.

Trying to run a CM15A on one phase and your lighting setup on the other.. could be very frustrating. Unchecked powerline noise.. can ruin an otherwise fine setup also. This is a reference list of X10 issues... its worth looking over. I really doubt that you have any major problems or issues with your setup. A little time spent looking at you powerlines and circuits could be very rewarding.
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Elfmaze

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2009, 12:15:53 PM »

Something is either being VERY noisy or VERY x10 signal draining.  I have now tried it on three outlets and each outlet the lamp modules will only work in the same outlet.   Its acting like its not just two phase but EVERY switch and outlet is seeming like its on a different phase.  If it was just a phase issue half of the outlets in the house should work.  But none do.  which means i have some sort of wicked noise issue.  Still trying to track it down. I'm sure i will also have a phase problem but i need to get SOMETHING working first before worrying about phase problems.
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Elfmaze

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2009, 01:18:01 PM »

OK explain this one.   I plugged everything in the house back in.  Re plugged in all the power conditioners and UPS's. And just for ****s and giggles plugged the AHP transceiver into the UPS'ed and power conditioned computer plugs since those are the only other plugs the USB cable can reach.

  Going THRU the UPS the system is working!  About 90% of my outlets are responding now........
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