Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[DIYguy]

Common problem everyones heard before....
Extensive X10 installation working for years quits working.
If nothing new added must be something existing that died or is now generating line noise.  I don't have the time or option to unplug everything in the house and start adding back plus there are about seventeen SR227 receptacles modules installed.
What is the most cost effective tool for metering line noise and signal strength that I can use to determine amount of and source of line noise?  Couple of meters I looked up are discontinued, others are several hundred dollars.  What advise as to best bang for the buck for solving these kind of problems?
JJ

[DIYguy]

Let's try a different question.  I'm looking at two testers
X10 Test Transceiver   http://www.smarthome.com/2200ATT/X10-Multi-Tester-Test-Transceiver/p.aspx
X10 Powerline Signal Analyzer http://www.smarthome.com/4814/X10-Powerline-Signal-Analyzer-XPSA/p.aspx
Does anyone have experience with either of these or different analyzers they can recommend.  I need to get my X10 system back up as soon as possible and can't find the source of line noise. 
I did notice one thing I thought strange.  On the AHP screen for "Find Other Computers" The "A" channel has a couple red addresses and the rest are yellow except for the few that are actual device address (green).  The rest of the channels are OK except "P".  P1 is red and all the rest of the address are yellow.  I have no devices on the "P" channel.  Anyone have an idea why the "P" channel would be the one that seems to have so much noise?

[Brian H]

Is it P16?
I believe P16 is used by one of the X10 devices and AHP flags it even if you are not using it.

I don't have any information on the devices you linked to and the ones you may have looked at and are discontinued ELK ESM-1 and Smarthome TesterLinc are the ones I use.

[dave w]

Common problem everyones heard before....
Extensive X10 installation working for years quits working.
If nothing new added must be something existing that died or is now generating line noise.  I don't have the time or option to unplug everything in the house and start adding back plus there are about seventeen SR227 receptacles modules installed.

FWIW
Never used any of the meters you are looking for evaluations on in your second post. I have success with the now defunct ESM-1. However http://www.automatedoutlet.com/ will loan ESM-1s for use.

Can you turn off your breakers one by one and see if X10 control returns? It is easier to unplug suspect noise makers if you can isolate to a branch.

[steven r]

I have one of the now discontinued ELK ESM-1 testers that I like a lot.

Many of us are looking forward to JeffVolp having time to finish the design of his tester. Like his other products, I expect it to be excellent value and even better than many of the testers out there at least the ESM-1 for sure. I for one expect to retire mine when he releases his tester.

JeffVolp: Not to rush you but any ETA on your tester?

[DIYguy]

Been swapping e-mails with Jeff.  His last e-mails looks like fall for his tester (Jeff to confirm) 
Since all the recommended testers, ESM-1 etc are discontinued I bit the bullet and just ordered the Monterey X10 signal analyzer @ $359  Also leaning towards Jeff's XTB-IIR
JJ

[Brian H]

Please give us the low down on the Monterey Tester after you have a chance to use it.

[JeffVolp]

JeffVolp: Not to rush you but any ETA on your tester?

Yes, the target is still this fall.  The hardware was working several months ago, but I haven't had any time to work on the firmware over the last several months.  The 100+ summer temperatures will keep me inside most days, so that should give me time to complete the firmware.

Jeff

[dave w]

Yeah, but it's a dry heat.

[steven r]

Yeah, but it's a dry heat.

Unlike our humid summers down here. 

[DIYguy]

Received my X10 Signal Analyzer, five additional XPPF filters and XTB-IIR Friday, spent Saturday working on wiring.  Soon as I plugged in the signal analyzer I was reading BSC error (Bad Start Code) and a lot of line noise.  Started killing circuits one by one and was still getting the error.  Discovered among other noise generators, the cabinet lights in my wine bar cabinets were pumping noise into the system.  This only came into play as I was using that cabinet and lights as a work station to start with.  Turn the lights off, noise stops.  Turn lights on meter goes nuts.  Microwave when running pumps out noise.  Metal halide lights on reef tank only put out noise while the bulbs are initially firing up.  Still not sure if the InsteOn BosterLinc was fighting with the XTB-IIR, but I removed the BosterLinc to be sure.  Thought I had everything dialed in and working so finished hooking my outdoor floods to ToggleLinc and motion.  Lights worked OK manually, set-up meter and tested and got major line noise, BSC error.  @%#$!! thought the ToggleLinc was messed up.  Killed power to that circuit and still had noise.  Started pulling every InsteOn device, still had noise.  Killed half the circuits in the house, still had noise. *%$@#!!  Walked out to the shop to get another tool to start removing stuff and walked into a full lit shop.  Six, 4-bulb fluorescent ceiling mounted light fixtures fired up while running test.  Flipped the light switch, went back and checked meter and all's good.  Started turning on and plugging in and still good.  Went out, turned lights on and wack-O!  Looks like I need to isolate the power line to the shop from the rest of the system, those light fixtures are over $500 an not an option to change.

None of this explains why the system completely failed originally as none of the above where on during the time the system completely shut down.  Still helps finding the gremlins but only part of the mystery.  Especially since the system would not run at all for nearly a week.  Still not sure what the one magic bullet was that killed the system but now have ammunition to fight back.

Have some comments and opinions for the Monterey Power Line Signal Analyzer but think that should be a separate thread.  Might be worthwhile in the future for anyone else going through the same challenges.

JJ

[JeffVolp]

I put two of those new 4-bulb fluorescent fixtures in the rec-room suspended ceiling.  They have electronic ballasts, and the ESM1 lights up a bar whenever they are on.  Yes, the solution is to isolate them with a filter.

Jeff

[DIYguy]

I've pulled up info to order inline filters but before I did, searched other posts for fluorescent line noise.  Looks like the XPNR I was thinking of isn't the right choice for my fluorescent lights.  I have six ceiling mounted four bulb light fixtures with T8 bulbs.  These are hard wired on a three-way circuit using ToggleLinc non-dimming X10 wall switches (#23893) with companion switch.  All six light fixtures are on a dedicated circuit at the subpanel in my shop.

Based on previous posts, is the Leviton #6287 filter connected to the load side of the wall switch between the switch and the first fixture the best filter?

Jeff, what did you use?
JJ

[JeffVolp]

No, I don't think the XPNR is the right choice for your noise problem.  The Leviton 6287 is only rated at 5A, so that may not handle six 4-bulb fixtures.  You could split the load between two of them, or choose the larger XPF, which is rated 20A.  I use one of those here for our "electronics" circuit.  That filter is pretty big, and needs a triple-gang box.

I seem to recall a recent post from someone who said the XPF didn't solve his fluorescent light problem, so there is no guarantee it will definitely solve yours.  Some of these noise sources are pretty tough to deal with.  Most manufacturers don't care.  It is all about maximizing the bottom line.

Here I used the Leviton 6287 for most lighting circuits.  My two 4-bulb fixtures are not yet filtered, and they do light up one bar on the ESM1 whenever they are on.  I haven't bothered to filter them because they are on the end of a circuit, and not much of that noise gets back to the distribution panel.

Jeff

[Boiler]

Received my X10 Signal Analyzer, five additional XPPF filters and XTB-IIR Friday, spent Saturday working on wiring.  Soon as I plugged in the signal analyzer I was reading BSC error (Bad Start Code) and a lot of line noise...

Hi DIYguy,

Your Monterey analyzer diagnostics sound similar to the Smarthome Testerlinc.  That being the case, don't drive yourself nuts trying to eliminate BSC (Bad Start Codes) and BCY (Bad 3-cycle gap) diagnostics.  My testerlinc regularly produces these when used with any of my CM15a's (I have 3).

Also beware that Insteon will show up as noise and will produce the same BSC/BCY diagnostics.

Two words regarding using a Boosterlinc along with Insteon - Ditch it.  I've tried two Boosterlincs with my Insteon system (both "Insteon Blessed" versions).  Both would invariably get into a mode where they were trying to repeat Insteon communications and would corrupt the whole installation.  These work fine for X10 only installs.

Boiler