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[jukingeo]

Hello all,

I am new to the X10 forums, but I have been using X-10 products for a few years now.  I decided to sign up tonight since I just received an Activehome Pro automation system.

So far setting up the automation system was non-problematic except for a couple of minor issues that I was able to resolve myself.

However, I have come up with an issue that I need some assistance with.

A while back I came upon an X-10 deal that offered 3 Eagle Eye (MS14A) sensor modules for the price of one.  Naturally I jumped on the deal.

I have noticed that this sensor is for both outdoor and indoor use.   My main application was for an indoor setting to turn on a stairway light for a predetermined time interval and then automatically turn the light off when motion was no longer detected.

Shortly after installation I have noticed that there was interference in the operation of the Eagle Eye unit with the adjacent module.   For example, I have the Eagle Eye on on G3 and a bedroom (box) fan on G4, whenever the Eagle eye triggers the light assigned to G3 (the basement stairway), it also affects the fan on G4 (when the stairway light goes out, the fan turns on).

Upon reading the manual for the Eagle Eye, I have discovered that it has an adjacent channel feature in which it senses the coming of dusk and dawn.  So for the main motion sensing channel if you set it for unit #3 the dusk/dawn channel is #4.   If you set it to channel #1, dusk/dawn is on channel #2.

Considering my application, you can quickly see the dilemma I am presented with.  The light for the staircase is near the motion sensor and it is triggering the second channel.

I know that the simplest solution is to move the stairway trigger to channel 4 and thus the dusk/dawn feature would be assigned to 4+1 or channel 5.  But here in lies another problem. 

I have also bought in on a deal for 4 3 unit + dim remote wall switches (Model SS13A).   Like the Eagle Eye the wall switch only allows 3 consecutive settings for assignment (ie if I set the first switch to respond to channel 2, the next switch will be 2+1, and the 3rd switch will be 2+2.   I have mine set to house code G and the standard factory unit 1-2-3 settings.

Channel 1 is my main living room light
Channel 2 is my outside lights (2 wall switch modules set to the same house code and unit code)
Channel 3 is the stairway light
Channel 4 is the fan (which is controlled from a 4 channel remote control (KR22A).

So this being my setup as of now the stair way is set to channel 3 but is affecting channel 4.  The simplest solution would be to move the stairway trigger to channel 4 (so the offending dusk/dawn feature is on the empty channel 5), BUT now that would move the stairway off of the first three channel operation for the 3 unit + dim remote wall switches.  One of which I located at the foot of the staircase to act as an over-ride.

So that is my dilemma.  It would seem that in order to have the above set up, I MUST have a way to turn off the dusk/dawn x+1 channel operation for the Eagle Eye sensor.  Can this be done? (turning the feature off (if possible) wasn't covered in the manual and I didn't read anything about it here in the forum).

If not I am open to other solutions or recommendations.

Thank You,

Geo

[HA Dave]

...A while back I came upon an X-10 deal that offered 3 Eagle Eye (MS14A) sensor modules for the price of one.  Channel 2 is my outside lights

I MUST have a way to turn off the dusk/dawn x+1 channel operation for the Eagle Eye sensor.  Can this be done?

I like the mod... where you just open the case... and put a bit of black electrical tape over the light sensor. That way the sensor thinks its forever dark... and never does anything to the +1 code.

[jukingeo]

I like the mod... where you just open the case... and put a bit of black electrical tape over the light sensor. That way the sensor thinks its forever dark... and never does anything to the +1 code.

I guess there is no way to do it via a program code using the two buttons?  I thought there would be a simple way to defeat it like that.  At any rate, I don't have a problem taking the unit apart and doing as you suggest.  Where exactly is the sensor when you open the unit up?

Thanx,

Geo

[HA Dave]

..... Where exactly is the sensor when you open the unit up?

If you know what your looking for.... it jumps out at you. A tiny little glass bead of a photocell with a squidly line in it. You should be able to find directions on the Internet.

[Brian H]

http://www.edcheung.com/automa/ms14a.htm

I believe it is the small component just to the right of U1 and above SW-PB2.
Maybe others can verify this as I don't have one physically to look at.

[jukingeo]

..... Where exactly is the sensor when you open the unit up?

If you know what your looking for.... it jumps out at you. A tiny little glass bead of a photocell with a squidly line in it. You should be able to find directions on the Internet.

Brian (below) provided a couple of photos.  I see the part in the second photo, but that photo isnt for the Eagle Eye.

http://www.edcheung.com/automa/ms14a.htm

I believe it is the small component just to the right of U1 and above SW-PB2.
Maybe others can verify this as I don't have one physically to look at.

As I mentioned to Dave above, the photocell IS very clear in the second picture (which isn't the Eagle Eye), but not so in the first picture (that one is the Eagle Eye).  I am going to assume though it is that one black part in the same vicinity.  I guess I will just take one apart and see what happens.

I did find out that X10 does have a sensor that doesn't have the +1 dusk/dawn feature, but it is actually more expensive!  At any rate, I have three of the Eagle Eyes and if I can successfully mod it then that is all for the better.

Last night I noticed that even though I moved the fan to G5 (from G4), I DO get the false trigger notification in my log for the Active Home Pro.  Blocking or disabling the sensor seems to be the best way to go, because then the signal will not get to the system and send me false reports.

Thanx for the info guys!

Geo

[HA Dave]

.... I guess I will just take one apart and see what happens.

Last night I noticed that even though I moved the fan to G5 (from G4), I DO get the false trigger notification in my log for the Active Home Pro.  Blocking or disabling the sensor seems to be the best way to go, because then the signal will not get to the system and send me false reports.

That's true. Removing the extra signal can be a clean way to run the macros (IMHO). But if you can keep one units dusk/dawn sensor working... that can also be handy. Although you can easily use timers built-in to AHP to determine sunset... cloudy sky's can often make a real difference to light conditions. Having a sensor that can determind lighting needs based on actual light conditions... can be nice.

I use a decorative nightlight setup that is turned on and off by both sensor and timers.

[jukingeo]

.... I guess I will just take one apart and see what happens.

Last night I noticed that even though I moved the fan to G5 (from G4), I DO get the false trigger notification in my log for the Active Home Pro.  Blocking or disabling the sensor seems to be the best way to go, because then the signal will not get to the system and send me false reports.

That's true. Removing the extra signal can be a clean way to run the macros (IMHO). But if you can keep one units dusk/dawn sensor working... that can also be handy. Although you can easily use timers built-in to AHP to determine sunset... cloudy sky's can often make a real difference to light conditions. Having a sensor that can determind lighting needs based on actual light conditions... can be nice.

I use a decorative nightlight setup that is turned on and off by both sensor and timers.

The sensor in question is located in a dark stairwell that doesn't receive much light either day or night.  However, the lighting in the day is sufficient to see where you are going at least...so I have the AHP set on a rule for the staircase and that it doesn't activate the stairway light until after 5:00pm and likewise after 7:00am in the morning, it shuts down again.  So I am not using the timing systems in the Eagle Eye.  All I need that for is the motion trigger and the AHP does the rest.

As for sensors, I did have the X10 'sundowner' controller that had the dusk/dawn option, but the problem was that the unit was indoors and as such I had many problems with it...especially on cloudy days.  Even putting it right in a window didn't help.

The AHP is great in that it can memorize the dusk/dawn times of the actual sunrise and sunset.  So what I have done is set up my outside lights as such.  The inside light I have set up on a pre-dusk delay of 1 hour, so the interior living room light will come on an hour before dusk.  The off time I have pre-set. So I did take things up a notch with the AHP.

As you were saying though, I am probably only going to modify two of the sensors and keep the third one just in case I DO need the dusk/dawn sensor for an outdoor application. 

I am still learning and playing around with the AHP though.  I just loaded up the expanded macro plug in software on Sunday and that allows conditionals to be set...hence I was playing with the settings for the stairway light so that it doesn't come on in the day.   I still have to tweak the sensors position as it does trigger if someone walks by the starway.   But it is really cool now that in the middle of the night if I get up and have to go upstairs that the stairway light will come on and I don't kill myself coming up the stairs LOL!

Anyway thanx for the help and advice.

Geo

[HA Dave]

...The AHP is great in that it can memorize the dusk/dawn times of the actual sunrise and sunset.  So what I have done is set up my outside lights as such.  The inside light I have set up on a pre-dusk delay of 1 hour, so the interior living room light will come on an hour before dusk.  The off time I have pre-set. So I did take things up a notch with the AHP.

... I am still learning and playing around with the AHP though. 

It sounds (reads) as though you pretty much have things figured out. Sometimes the forum functions as more of a sounding-board... and as a way to get confirmation (and feedback) from other X10 users.

[jukingeo]

...The AHP is great in that it can memorize the dusk/dawn times of the actual sunrise and sunset.  So what I have done is set up my outside lights as such.  The inside light I have set up on a pre-dusk delay of 1 hour, so the interior living room light will come on an hour before dusk.  The off time I have pre-set. So I did take things up a notch with the AHP.

... I am still learning and playing around with the AHP though. 

It sounds (reads) as though you pretty much have things figured out. Sometimes the forum functions as more of a sounding-board... and as a way to get confirmation (and feedback) from other X10 users.

Well, I am technically inclined and I am also computer literate, so the two things help.   The manual that came with the AHP was pretty basic, but it was also well written, so it did help me to figure out the AHP very quickly.

At any rate, I did prefer the dusk dawn settings on the AHP (which is the initial reason I bought it) because I did have trouble with the traditional light/dark sensors in regards to operation in a shaded or indoor area.  The light/dark sensor probably would work better if the sensor was more out in the open.  That is something I have not tried yet, but I could try it with an unaltered Eagle Eye. 

The inherit problem with light/dark sensors is the preset threshold.  On a cloudy day, it could force the lights to come on too early...or worse, the sensor thinks it is dusk and it will turn on the outside lights too early.  If the sensor turns on later (darker) then it would be ok from an outside light point of view, BUT from an inside point of view, the interior lights might come on too late.  So that is why I am somewhat against the idea of a light/dark sensor and would rather go with the sunset/sunrise times.  In the event of a cloudy day...I just have to manually turn the one light on earlier if need be.

The only hiccup I can think of using the dawn/dusk timers is what happens with the time changes in the spring and fall?  I am wondering if the unit adjusts for that or do I have hook the computer up to it.

My goal is that once I have the AHP fully programmed and tested, is to have it stand alone and do it's job.

I am also considering the security system too.  The alarm I have on my house now is still good, but it is mostly passive IR, but I need some window sensors on the basement windows.   I have cats down there now and have to keep them in one area of the basement so they don't trigger the IR sensor (which they now do).  I basically want my cats to have the full run of the basement...so I need window sensors.  Running wires to the old alarm is no longer practical.

Anyway, thanx for the help.

Geo

[HA Dave]

.... The manual that came with the AHP was pretty basic, but it was also well written, so it did help me to figure out the AHP very quickly.

I've read a lot of posts here at the forums..... it is rare that someone admits to having read the manual. I always assumed that meant that few did.

...  I did prefer the dusk dawn settings on the AHP (which is the initial reason I bought it)

I guess timers vs sensor is just a preference thing.

The only hiccup I can think of using the dawn/dusk timers is what happens with the time changes in the spring and fall?  I am wondering if the unit adjusts for that or do I have hook the computer up to it.

In the setup process you likely selected location and if your area uses daylight savings time... that allows AHP to keep your settings correct.
However I run a Home Automation PC 24/7 for the extra benefits of the computer processor.

[jukingeo]

I've read a lot of posts here at the forums..... it is rare that someone admits to having read the manual. I always assumed that meant that few did.

Yup, I actually DID read the manual.  The step by step Macro walk through was great.  With it I made a timed Macro for the stairway light.  Not only is this light triggered via motion sensor, but also via a switch using the 3 Unit + Dim RF Wallswitch (ss13a).  The channel #3 (on) turns on the stairway light and the light will automatically go off after a minute just as if the motion sensor triggered it.  (This is in the event the batteries die in the motion sensor, the light can still be operated manually).  Channel #3 (off) is a manual 'off' override which turns off the stairway light.   I also have another macro on the fan for the boys room, at a certain point in the night I want it to shut off.  So I made a macro that would operate the fan for four hours into the night and then turn itself off.

I guess timers vs sensor is just a preference thing.

I think it is the lack of controlling the dusk/dawn threshold that steers me away from that route.  I tried it several times and don't care for it.  Basic control of my household started with a simple dusk/dawn socket on my outside lamp.  However, what I noticed is that such devices cause the lamp to 'flicker'...and being that I sit outside often, that annoyed me and I did away with that system very quickly.  I then went with the X10 Sundowner system figuring it was better, but I had the threshold problems with that.  So in the end a timer based system was what the Dr. ordered.   Naturally that is flawed as well in that you have to keep readjusting the times based on the seasons.  For me it was a minor price to pay, but when I read that the AHP compensated for this, I jumped on it.  It will just make the system more maintenance free.

In the setup process you likely selected location and if your area uses daylight savings time... that allows AHP to keep your settings correct.
However I run a Home Automation PC 24/7 for the extra benefits of the computer processor.

Right now the system is on a PC, but I intend to locate it elsewhere in the house.  So far the dusk/dawn feature is working great and the only concern is when the time changes.  I don't know if the AHP will do that automatically or if I have to hook it back up to the PC to 'refresh' it.

As of now I am testing the system and I am determining its feasibility for an install into my parents home as well.  They also have a timed system and I would like to use the AHP there as well, BUT my parents don't have a computer so if I make changes, I would have to do so via a laptop machine.  But if the controller works out fine running 'solo' in my place then I would be good to go.

As I said, I am new to the AHP, so I am just going through the ropes right now and testing it all out.  So far so good!

Thanx,

Geo