Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[pete8314]

I've been using X10 in the UK for years, and had hoped to just use Z-Wave here (I moved to the US a couple of years ago, and got my own house earlier this year).  However, z-wave is crazy expensive in comparison, so for some less-critical actions (i.e. stuff that isn't the end of the world if it doesn't work every now and then) I decided to go with some X10.

So, I started with a CM15A, and a couple of Hawkeyes, just for some basic occupancy stuff (this is all through Homeseer).

Then I ordered some XPS3's to control some of the outside lights that the rest of the family can't seem to remember to turn out.  These are all CFL lights, as are the majority of lights in the house, which is a new build.

I installed one of the XPS3's last night, and after some dumb wiring issues, finally got it working locally, but Homeseer can't control it.

After reading a lot more on this forum, I see that there's a while bunch of factors that can kill the signal.  In the UK, the X10 stuff just worked, so I guess I was either lucky, or wiring is a little simpler over there (no phase splitting for a start).

Anyway, my current set up is that most of my electrical gear is in a single closet (the servers, tivo, Sonos etc etc).  So the CM15A is in that closet, which plugs into an extension cord that goes direct to the wall.  Unfortunately, there's also an APC UPS plugged into the other socket, and I've read they can cause havoc with PLC.  It's difficult to move that, since it's providing UPS to the other servers. I assume that that closet is generating an awful lot of noise, given all the PCs and switching power supplies in there.

So, I've read I can buy filters, fit a phase coupler (turning the stove on doesn't make the XPS3 work), signal repeaters etc etc.

Given that I only really want basic X-10 functionality (no extended X10, nothing critical under X10 control), what would be your first steps?  If I'm honest I really do not want to spend time mapping the whole house, since I'm never going have more that maybe 5 or 6 X10 PLC devices.  I cannot move the server thats running Homeseer, but I could potentially stand up another PC somewhere else in the house who's only job is Homeseer.  However, if fitting a phase coupler or adding some noise filters are a good first move, then I'd rather do that.

I've rambled enough.  From what I read last night, some of you guys know more than I will ever want or need to know about X10, so I'd welcome your thoughts.

Thanks, Pete

[Brian H]

Noise in the equipment closet sounds like a good place to start troubleshooting. My UPS has a line filter on its AC input and it absorbs X10 and Insteon signals.

How big is the UPS power wise?

Is it plugged in to an outlet or hard wired?

I have a 10 Amp Smarthome FilterLinc on my APC BX1000 UPS.

Act makes a 15 Amp Filter that Plugs in and X10Pro makes a 20 Amp hard wired in one and it is quite large size wise.

If the XPS3 is on one phase of the homes wiring and the CM15A is on the other could also be a coupling problem.

Some CFL bulbs also make power line noise.

Any way you could maybe use a longer extension cord to try a different circuit for the CM15A?

[dave w]

Since you have invested in Homeseer I would invest in a good repeater (XTBIIR is first choice). The CM15A is know to have weak output compared the the older CM11A, the wired controllers, the tranceivers, etc.

[glb7272]

I installed one of the XPS3's last night, and after some dumb wiring issues, finally got it working locally, but Homeseer can't control it.

What homseeer product / software are you referring to do they sell "x10"? Can you isolate the problem by removing the cm15a (and hook it up to another pc in another room and test) from the closet and let the rest of the servers run on the ups unplugged for a few minutes? I know filters may work but the source of the problem needs to be addressed first.

[pete8314]

I'm just using Homeseer v2, I've been using HS for 10+ years, and although I wasn't a fan when they moved to a browser/.Net platform, it generally does the job, and for me ties together the alarm, audio and any X10/ZWave devices.

For UPS, I'm using a Belkin BE750G, which is 750Va.  that's plugged into 1 of the 2 outlets, and into that goes a couple of servers, a NAS, Tivo, a Switch, cable modem and router.  On the other wall outlet is a powersquid, which mostly just has a bunch of wall-warts plugged into it (using a Powersquid as the wall-warts take up too much space on a normal power strip), and, of course, the CM15A.

There's only 2 outlets in the wiring closet, so they're both fairly max'd out, and I assume in the world of X10 exceptionally noisy, with a UPS on 1, and 5 switching wall-warts (and the CM15A) on the other.

Possible one of the easiest options, to at least prove some of the theories, is to run an extension cable into the closet from another outlet, and see if that makes a difference.  I'm sure I do also have coupling issue, but for now I'll just be happy to have half the house working, as that at least gives me a starting point.

I could also get a CM11A (though would have to use a USB-Serial dongle) if you guys think that would also help?  The CM15A is very fussy anyway, it's compeltely hit or miss whether it comes back up after a reboot.

Thanks, Pete

[dave w]

I'm just using Homeseer v2, I've been using HS for 10+ years, and although I wasn't a fan when they moved to a browser/.Net platform, it generally does the job, and for me ties together the alarm, audio and any X10/ZWave devices.

I could also get a CM11A (though would have to use a USB-Serial dongle) if you guys think that would also help?  The CM15A is very fussy anyway, it's compeltely hit or miss whether it comes back up after a reboot.

Thanks, Pete

Pete I use Homeseer also, and completely agree with your souring after they went to the browser GUI. But it is still a great program. My $0.02 on the CM11 is to look at the ACT TI103 instead. Unfortunately it is serial, but it is very, very solid, and cranks out about 3V of X10 signal. I dumped the CM15A and AHP and went to Homeseer, installed a cheap $12 serial card in my desktop home controller PC for the TI103, and haven't looked back. I do use an antenna modified CM15A as a "all house code tranceiver" but nothing more.

[pete8314]

Thanks.  I see it online for around $50 delivered, so that's not horrible. I can also plug it in somewhere fairly clean, since I can run a long(ish) serial cable through the attic to another outlet somewhere.

[glb7272]

Pete8314, another question, when you say locally do you mean from an rf remote ,from the switch, or from the switch on the load? Does that product have local control (could not find out on the net) meaning: turn on a light at the switch that is on the actual lamp. x10 pro seems to keep that feature while regular x10 has dropped it for cfl reasons. The reason I ask is because of the 240v load on the xps3 module from a previous post. It may have caused damage to a component allowing some things to work like local control and not others receive actual x10 signal over the line. Anyway just another thought.

[pete8314]

I meant locally from the XPS3 switch.  A good, solid, 'clunk' :-)

I don't get much time to tinker with this stuff at the moment, but during a spare 10 minutes last might I ran an extension lead from a socket in the bedroom next door (which is on the same breaker as the wiring closet), and plugged the CM15A into that.  Bingo, it worked every time.  So it's the noise in the closet that's causing a significant issue.  I still went ahead and ordered the ACT TI103 since the CM15A is fairly flaky, but hopefully a conbination of relocating to another outlet, and using the ACT will resolve my basic issues.  I may still need a coupler, I guess I'll find that out as I start to deploy the various bits of X10 around the house.

I assume there's not an equivalent to the XPS3 that doesn't clonk quite so loudly?  I don't care in most instances, but I plan to use one of them to replace a wall switch for controlling the gas fireplace, and would rather something a little more discreet.

[Brian H]

The Smarthome SwitchLinc Relay or less feature Icon version Decorator Style and the ToggleLinc Toggle style Switches, can have an X10 Primary Address added to it and is very quiet.

Few points.
In a three way setup. You do not use a companion switch with traveler. Both are cross linked to each other.
As a two way device if any other X10 device is on the same address. The switch will also turn on and off that device.
May absorb some X10 signals when not transmitting. So a marginal X10 setup in theory could degrade slightly.
Expensive compared to X10 devices especially if on sale or a EBay find.