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[Sasquatch]

I know from experience I could probably find my answer, but I just spent over half an hour and made no progress. Soooooo, I am just going to ask.

I am an HOA director and we are having big problems with one court. I have done the sight line work and we can cover it with 5 or 6 cameras. Part of my concern is that one of the cameras would have to be about 30 yards from the receiver and another about 50 yards. We need color cameras with night vision (I know... night vision doesn't do color), in all 5 or 6 locations. Thoughts? Obvious and not obvious suggestions, and so forth.

Thanks!

Shawn

[dave w]

I know from experience I could probably find my answer, but I just spent over half an hour and made no progress. Soooooo, I am just going to ask.

I am an HOA director and we are having big problems with one court. I have done the sight line work and we can cover it with 5 or 6 cameras. Part of my concern is that one of the cameras would have to be about 30 yards from the receiver and another about 50 yards. We need color cameras with night vision (I know... night vision doesn't do color), in all 5 or 6 locations. Thoughts? Obvious and not obvious suggestions, and so forth.

Thanks!

Shawn

The first obvious thought is: you won't be using X10 wireless cameras. They are very short range, line of sight...50 feet, not 50 yards. Also the X10 "Night Vision"  cameras are more like "dusk" cameras unless you hack them to remove the IR filter in front of the lens. You need good nighttime lighting for a decent picture with X10.

"Dave X10" uses X10 cameras extensively and may have more useful response about X10 cameras, but my initial thought is "These aren't the droids you are looking for".

[HA Dave]

..... we are having big problems with one court. ....... Thoughts? Obvious and not obvious suggestions, and so forth.

Big problems require big solutions. This isn't the time to research and do experimentation's. Look in the yellow pages (on-line of course) get a professional installer in.

The first obvious thought is: you won't be using X10 wireless cameras. They are very short range, line of sight...50 feet, not 50 yards.......
"Dave X10" uses X10 cameras extensively and may have more useful response about X10 cameras, but my initial thought is "These aren't the droids you are looking for".

I think if he didn't already have a problem.... and had the time for trials and tests... with nothing to lose. He could try a few things. But that isn't his case as he said: "we are having big problems with one court". He needs a professional.

[Sasquatch]

Ok, hoped I could get an easy answer. Thank you for giving me very valid answers, given the vague nature of my post. I hope this will help.

1: I Checked out professional installations. Unfortunately they were way too expensive. This is a small HOA in a neighborhood over 40 years old.

2: I have experience installing X-10 systems (admittedly over a decade ago), and I have undergrad degrees in Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences. While the education is great, it does not keep me from opting out of certain projects. This however, should definitely be within my capabilities.

3: None of the cameras will need to cover a distance visually for more than 40 feet, and that is only the case for two of them. The others will be approximately 20 feet at maximum range.

4: One of the cameras needing 40 feet would actually be used in a spot where it will catch shots of license plates @ 20 feet and maybe make of car up to 40 feet (well lit area). It should provide a long shot down the court, but I don't expect very high resolution. Those shots would simply be additional footage to the other cameras. Would any of the cameras be able to give me the resolution I need to capture license plate numbers at 20 feet?

5: The others will be placed discreetly on various townhouses. They will be responsible for approach to the houses and watching their cars.

6: The "big problems" have been ongoing for a very long time, just getting worse.

7: I also thought of X-10 because I may be replacing broken cameras from time to time and as you can tell, expenditure is a big deal.    I am sure you get the picture... pun intended. 

It has been a while since I worked with X-10 systems, and at the time the cameras were very good. I am going to have to go on record here and admit I got frustrated by the web site. I am retired due to head injuries and suffer constant migraine pain. To put it literally, that site is a pain. For me, it is chaotic, colorful and has tons of "bling factor." I am sure it is very successful, but I can't stand to look at it for long.

I very much appreciate your time and thoughtfulness.

[dave w]

Sasquatch
Sorry I confused you by not being clear in my initial response. When I said the X10 Wireless cameras are good for "50 feet not 50 yards" I ment the wireless transmission distance, not the picture distance.

Perhaps there are wireless cameras which will transmit 150 feet but I don't think X10 will, and they even have "directional" antennas. They are "short hop" only. X10 claims "up to 100 feet" but if you read the feedback under the camera sections of this forum, you come to the concusion the "100 feet" is absolutely best case and probably not through any walls. Even if you could get 100 feet of video transmission range, the control signals to switch from one camera to another will not go that far.  Also, if going wired, you would probably need coax, not telephone cable which is pretty lossy. 

Maybe IP cameras? or fake cameras? or wireless cameras with greater transmission range than what X10 typically gets. OR buy one of the X10 cheap deals with one or two cameras and a receiver for test.

[HA Dave]

Ok, hoped I could get an easy answer. Thank you for giving me very valid answers, given the vague nature of my post. I hope this will help.
I Checked out professional installations. Unfortunately they were way too expensive. This is a small HOA in a neighborhood over 40 years old.
....The "big problems" have been ongoing for a very long time, just getting worse.

I did NOT see your post as vague. Maybe my reply wasn't wordy enough to make an impact. I hope this will help.

Cameras aren't policemen. Cameras can't stop or prevent crime. Cameras can't make an arrest... and only rarely provide evidence used in court. Cameras are so very [stupid] easy to defeat. Merely pulling a ballcap down over your eyes and looking at your feet when near the camera... renders the camera as useless.

If you have a home or area that hasn't already been effected by crime. Cameras can be a great deterrent. They not only say "we watch this area"... security cameras also say "we've gone the extra step. We locked things up well.. we added security features.. and now we even have cameras".
 
Criminals don't steal their way though college. Criminals are lazy and they look for the easiest targets that require the least amount of effort. I have security cameras AND solid doors and windows, good locks, alarm stickers and signs. A thief looking for quick easy takings may choose my neighbor... if my neighbor has done none of that. The cameras just make it easier for the thieves to spot my home as a hardened target. That is what I mean when I call cameras a deterrent.

You already have a (self-reported) problem! You very likely need PROFESSIONAL help. It is too late to be proactive.... you now can only be reactive... and YES now it may be much more expensive. The longer you wait the greater the chance someone will be harmed.... or killed. Crime is a messy business. This problem will not fix itself or just go away.

You already have a criminal element “in place” they cannot simply or easily be deterred. Getting criminals to move on to another target isn't a DIY project (unless your a police officer). Arrests will need to be made and resistance should be expected. An ounce of prevention may truly save a pound of cure. But your too late for prevention.

I have undergrad degrees in Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences. While the education is great, it does not keep me from opting out of certain projects. This however, should definitely be within my capabilities.

I am sure you are very intelligent... as well as well educated. Your education and experience could be helpful here at the forum (as well as to the individual residents at the court). But your education doesn't sound to me to be helpful in dealing with crime. Although... fine and respectful degrees... you don't have a technical problem. You have a criminal problem. 

I am sure you don't ask your doctor for legal advice.... nor show your teeth to a priest. You have a security problem. Not an engineering or computer problem. Your solution may require someone with no degree... and a nightstick. I don't know. I hope you seek professional security help.

[MichaelHlubb]

Small point to add to what Dave just wrote. the X-10 Camera system does not record the date and time ON the Video and/or Picture taken. Meaning, these captured images become useless in a court of law, if you're trying to indicate when something happened. 

[pconroy]

Dave,

Your advice is solid.

But what you're not doing is helping posters arrive at the same conclusion you've already arrived at.
Seems to me what he's asking for are the technical pros/cons of solving his problems w/ X-10 cameras.



Sasquatch - I don't own any x-10 cameras but from what I've read and seen from others is that you'd want to be double check:
- resolution - you may not be able to resolve license plates with these cameras
- PC/OS compatibility - I recall reading that folks are having issues getting their gear to work with certain operating systems etc..


I know money's tight - but maybe the only way to get your answer is to buy one?
There's always eBay to unload it!   

[HA Dave]

Dave,
Your advice is solid.
But what you're not doing is helping posters arrive at the same conclusion you've already arrived at.

I know. Some people have told me that my bedside manner really sucks. And... I know they're right. I actually love technology... I really do. I do as much with technology and automation as anyone. But gadgets and gizmo's... can't fix bruises bullet holes. The time for preventative measures are BEFORE you have a problem. Closing the barn door... is best done before the horse gets out.

My comments were actually meant as much for forum browsers. Who are considering using security cameras and the DS7000... because of a rise in crime.

[nybuck]

My 2c and my experience with X10 cameras are:

You may have trouble getting the wireless video with the distances you speak of.
You WILL have no picture at night, out of the box.  There are IR mods and bright floodlights may help, but I see Nothing but headlights at night.
I would not rely on the X10 motion sensor camera auto-switching.  I would record each camera individually, and let the software detect and record on motion.  There are many inexpensive ways to do this and it works.  You also won't have little battery-powered paintball-targets (AKA EagleEyes) everywhere.
Don't expect to be able to read a license plate from a moving vehicle from the picture from an X10 mini-camera.  The Pro or PTZ line (at about 10x the price) will probably show a readable plate, but my XCam experience shows me "something or someone's there", not details.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but don't kill the messenger! 

Good Luck!