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[gossamer]

Hi, I have a handful of WS467 light switches that I'd like to install. These are two-wire switches. Will they work when there are three wires at the outlet? I believe one is neutral?

Isn't it also necessary to have a ground wire?

Thanks,
Alex

[Dave4720]

The neutral will still pass through the box and onto the load, but the WS467 won’t need it, so yes, it will work.

The ground is for safety, not operation.  If you have metal boxes, the box can be grounded and that gets connected to the tab of the WS467.  The WS467 may not need a ground since no screw tab is provided.

[dave w]

Will they work when there are three wires at the outlet? I believe one is neutral?

Isn't it also necessary to have a ground wire?

Thanks,
Alex

piggybacking Dave 4720s comment. (obviously I type slower than Dave)

At the outlet?

If you mean the wall switch box, yes. The neutral simply isn't used by the switch, it only needs Line (the "hot") and Load.

But you should NEVER use a WS467 to control an outlet. If anything other than an incandescent lamp is plugged into the outlet controlled by the WS467 you risk damage to the WS467 and what ever it is controlling. Fire is also a possibilty, depending upon what is plugged into the controlled outlet (i.e. your 50 inch Samsung LCD TV would not like it one darn bit).

Ground wire is not necessary for WS467 operation. But for safety it can be wrapped under one of the switches mounting ears. If the switch is being mounted in a grounded metal wall box that isn't necessary.

[gossamer]

piggybacking Dave 4720s comment. (obviously I type slower than Dave)

At the outlet?

If you mean the wall switch box, yes. The neutral simply isn't used by the switch, it only needs Line (the "hot") and Load.

Yes, the switch box, thanks.

I'll just twist a wire nut on the neutral and wrap it up back in the box.

It is a metal box, so I'll use the ears of the switch for ground.

Thanks so much!
Best regards,
Alex

[Brian H]

Was the white wire originally on the old switch and was it in a three way switch setup?
If so it may not be neutral. It maybe part of a switch loop.

[gossamer]

Was the white wire originally on the old switch and was it in a three way switch setup?
If so it may not be neutral. It maybe part of a switch loop.

That appears to in fact be the case, thanks. I should have better described the situation.

It's a two-switch wall outlet, with one switch used for an outside light and the other used for a switched outlet, where I put a light module.

When I finished connecting the WS467, it worked, but the light came up very slowly and the switch buzzed slightly, so I knew it was wrong and immediately disconnected it.

So, I've got it connected wrong, and rather than trying to describe it, maybe someone could give me an idea how it should correctly be set up? There are two black wires and a red.

When I disconnected the two old switches, one of the black wires was connected to one of the leads of each switch, and the red was connected to just one switch, the inside receptacle, I believe.

Thanks,
Alex

[Dave4720]

You may not be wrong.  The “light came up very slowly” may be soft-start (http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/SoftStart), and “switch buzzed slightly” may be normal if you are dimmed a bit.

Make sure you are full ON with the dim setting.  The button, if held, will ramp the dimming up and down.  If you touch the button to “turn it on” a little too long, you’ll turn it on and dim it a bit.  You need to use a solid but short push to just do a “turn on” or “turn off”.

“When I disconnected the two old switches, one of the black wires was connected to one of the leads of each switch, and the red was connected to just one switch, the inside receptacle, I believe.”

Oops - always document fully before disconnecting anything, and only do ONE thing at a time.   If one switch was being used for a light and you were replacing that, just replace that, and don’t touch the other switch for the wall outlet.

The black wire connected to each switch is probably the HOT feed IN, and the red usually indicates a switched HOT.  If you have another black, is probably the other switched HOT.

The WS467 black would go to the HOT feed IN, and the blue would go to the wire that goes on to the load.

[Brian H]

All the new wall switches now have soft start. The slow ramp on and off is correct.
It may also have a preset dim.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/SoftStart
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Newer_Wall_Switches_and_Preset_Dim

What type of light are you controlling with the switch?
A faint buzz maybe the electronics making some noise and also normal. If the bulb is a standard incandescent type bulb.

[gossamer]

All the new wall switches now have soft start. The slow ramp on and off is correct.
It may also have a preset dim.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/SoftStart
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Newer_Wall_Switches_and_Preset_Dim

What type of light are you controlling with the switch?
A faint buzz maybe the electronics making some noise and also normal. If the bulb is a standard incandescent type bulb.

Yep, it's a standard 60W incandescent. I'll try to rewire it using Dave4720's guidance later tonight and see if I can make it work.

Thanks again!
Best,
Alex

[bitman]

I ran into the same deal. I went "Pfft what could go wrong"... stuffed the ground into the box sealed it up. 

- Works.

Burnin' down the house.

[gossamer]

Make sure you are full ON with the dim setting.  The button, if held, will ramp the dimming up and down.  If you touch the button to “turn it on” a little too long, you’ll turn it on and dim it a bit.  You need to use a solid but short push to just do a “turn on” or “turn off”.

Yep, it does appear to be normal, thanks. I grew up with these X10s, but don't recall that being the default behavior.

Oops - always document fully before disconnecting anything, and only do ONE thing at a time.   If one switch was being used for a light and you were replacing that, just replace that, and don’t touch the other switch for the wall outlet.

Heh, yeah, thanks. I was thinking, "What could go wrong? There are only three wires :-)"

I grew up with my father who always did this -- we've had X10 integrated into the house for more than 20 years. But my dad's an **** and won't come here to help me in my house any more.

The black wire connected to each switch is probably the HOT feed IN, and the red usually indicates a switched HOT.  If you have another black, is probably the other switched HOT.

The WS467 black would go to the HOT feed IN, and the blue would go to the wire that goes on to the load.

Yes, that was pretty much correct. I hooked one black to each of the blacks. I think I got the one to the load correctly connected to the indoor switched outlet.

I hooked one blue to the black for the outdoor (unswitched) light. I hooked the other blue to the red wire for the switched outlet.

I also then realized I didn't need the light module at all, since the outlet is already switched :-)

Thanks again,
Alex

[Brian H]

The X10 switches you grew up with have changed.
They added soft start and preset dim to the mix.
Some long term users have also found it confusing. Especially those adding new switches into a home with the older ones installed. 

[Dave4720]

The X10 switches you grew up with have changed.
They added soft start and preset dim to the mix.
Some long term users have also found it confusing. Especially those adding new switches into a home with the older ones installed. 

AND I have found that the DIM setting % (in macros) that resulted in a certain dim level of older modules result in a very different level in newer modules. So macros had to be re-written if I replaced an older module with a newer one.  That's why I scored a fleetful of older non-softstart non-remember-dim Radio Shack wall switches on eBay!

[gossamer]

AND I have found that the DIM setting % (in macros) that resulted in a certain dim level of older modules result in a very different level in newer modules. So macros had to be re-written if I replaced an older module with a newer one.  That's why I scored a fleetful of older non-softstart non-remember-dim Radio Shack wall switches on eBay!

Tell me more about these macros? Are you doing firecracker programming?

I have a CM17A. Will that work with these modules? Do I just need the software now? I realize this is more of a home automation topic, and I'll move the conversation there when I have time, but for now just seeing if I need to invest in upgraded computer interface....

Thanks,
Alex

[Dave4720]

I use the now obsolete CM11A.  I have heard too many ‘bug’ stories about the current CM15A.  The CM15A also has a receiver (that I have also heard complaints about reception), but I already have a V572.  Yeah, the ActiveHome Pro http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/ActiveHome_Pro does so much more - blah, blah, blah, but my CM11A’s are fine for me.

I use my CM11A with macros as an event timer and a “housecode-unitcode transformer”.  I control floodlights and internal lights via timers hooked into dusk/dawn settings.  I have a night-shutdown macro where I can turn off all lights, but leave on small room lights for a non-totally dark house.  I have macros that control a ‘dim scene’ in certain rooms.

I can use a macro stored in the CM11A to transform housecodes and unitcodes, so to speak.  I can have several things on different housecodes and unitcodes, but I can control them via a ‘M’ housecode macro palmpad by having a macro send out the particular housecodes and unitcodes anywhere.

I use but a mere portion of what one could do.