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[lightbulbjones]

Marconi had this stuff figured out a long time ago and I don't see what should be so complicated about it.

I did not order a telephone responder. Not sure what dialing my own phone number would accomplish. Unclear on what the point would be of that. Would that not equate to talking to the reflection in the mirror?

I will take a look at some of the other software to drive the USB box after chow, (Thank you for the reference!) but messing with it would be a secondary concern when it seems simpler to do it with a cell phone and cut out the clunky stuff in the middle.

I have noticed in other topics that some mention has been made of trouble with windows 7 64 bit.
Does anyone know if this could be related?

I had asked the help chat specifically if it worked with windows 7 64 bit, but instead of giving me a yes or a no - they said it "works with windows 7"

In reality they did not answer my question at all.

So it looks to be that the software would still be trouble, regardless.
I am pretty sure my cell phone has less bits, so there's another vote for that.

[Brian H]

What exactly do you think can access X10 by cell phone?
As designed it is not made for cell phone access without some added third party software and maybe a hardware interface. There are probably are some cell phone Apps that do X10. Some could use the CM15A and one of the optional plug in software modules. I don't have enough AHP experiences to verify that.
Hoping others will have more data for you.

Did X10s sales page or salesperson say you where getting cell phone access?
They have so many different packages we have trouble keeping up with it and we are not X10 employees. We are volunteers that use X10 stuff and help others.

My TR16A reference may have been confusing. You could use the cell phone to call the home phone number and then access the X10 devices with touch tones.

[lightbulbjones]

Alright Brian - I see.
I would use my cell phone to call my home phone somehow to control the 240V box.
I missed the point because I don't use a home telephone. That makes a heck of a lot more sense, but seems to over complicate it a bit.

My thoughts are to simplify it and just use one radio (a cell phone) to talk to another radio (the 240V box) cut out the software and USB box.

Elegant and easy. No need to make things needlessly complicated. It is after all automation, and the trouble with the software/USB box is seems to go against that grain. Naturally, this is why I have abandoned the software/USB box idea. 
 
No salesperson told me about it, however the salespages I saw all pointed to externally controlling the hardware with a laptop or whatever and a cell phone would seem close enough.

I may have to read the cell phone manual, to see how it is accomplished- but maybe if I learn how to set up the internet on my cell phone; I can use something like morse code?  A for on and Z for off, and that will be that.  Easy, right? Is that not how it is done?

To be honest, I am surprised no one else would be doing this, and it seems to be such a foreign concept.
I have to ask - *why* is this? Or is this really not it's intended use as I may have misunderstood something along the line?  Seems like things are not lining up the way I had planned.

[Brian H]

Did your software include the My House Plug In?
I believe it allows access to your system from the Internet.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/MyHouse_Online

[lightbulbjones]

Yes, that looks familiar - and I understood the software to be complete without any additional things needed for something that could do anything within the realm of the equipment and the uses it is marketed for.
The marko is the only one that I got to register, so I said forget it.

I am trying to read up on a few things that catch my interest.  Looks very limited without the software, however. I can't see why this is the case. I am entirely disinterested in purchasing a boondoggle, and if it turns out I have, so help me!

I am glad I got moving on this even though it seems early now that I have looked at the tracking information.

Apparently, the "free FedEx" is less of a bargain than it appeared.  In this case "FedEx" means the back of an 18 wheeler apparently- so I have additional time to sort this out. I was expecting a knock at the door real soon now.

Better to figure this out now rather than in an overheated house struggling with a cell phone manual. I would have found that much more irritating.   

Since I have never been accused of being patient, I am going to see if I can try the install process all over again. I have free time tonight, but not later this week. Might as well.  Will report back, but I have little faith.

[Knightrider]

Whilst your waiting on the FedEx shipment, maybe you should do some research on how X10 works.  The modules (power switches) get their information from a digital signal super imposed on the electrical wires.  This is not a radio signal, but rather a pulse of voltages at specific times in the AC cycle. 

From my understanding of this thread, you cannot do what you want without the USB controller (CM [computer module] 15 A [American]) connected to a computer.

The cell phone will send a command to the internet, then to the computer, through the usb to the CM15A which will convert the command to a PLC (power line command) which is received by the Appliance Module which switches on or off accordingly.

AFAIK, there is no unit that will receive a radio command directly from the cell phone to turn something off or on.

As Brian H mentioned, there is a unit that hooks to an analog phone line which works like answer phone to convert DTMF signals (touch tone) to the PLC mentioned above.

[lightbulbjones]

Knightrider, my understanding is that this is wireless, not like the old garbage powerline systems of the past.
(Just an hour or two ago I read one of your articles and I was impressed, but confused at the complications.)

I have heard merciless criticism of that, and am fairly sure I bought it from a company called "X10 WIRELESS.com"  or something to that effect. Pretty sure it is the parent website of these rooms. No way would I have bothered, everybody knew those systems were junk as far back as the 80's and as far as I know they aren't sold anymore.
At first I had feared that, but it wouldn't make sense.  Looking at some of the reference pages they seem to be pointed at the existing hardware from the older style systems that ARE that way, so maybe it is recent? Seems those old systems would have enough problems to merit all that stuff. 

I am unable to tell how these newer systems work, is it a bluetooth or maybe an 802.11? Or low power FM of some sort?
I used to have an interest in radio, so it would be neat to get my head around it. I feel I could grasp that with minimal study.   

In better news: I have gotten 3 of the 5 softwares to register. This could be due to simple repetition, stubbornness, magic or outright alien influence.

In reality I have no idea what I did to make it work. Just tried the numbers in different slots over and over and over and changed little things here and there. 

And knightrider, thanks for your clarity. I will have to look into the rest of what you said, but for now I am going to go bounce off the registration for a bit longer before I give up on it again.

 

[lightbulbjones]

Well, time to declare victory.

I have to say it was a graceless, sloppy, inelegant and unintuitive process. That was ugly!

First of all, we have to run in compatibility mode for XP3/run as administrator.
Next we figure out how to let the software out of the firewall.
THEN as you copy the registration codes over, there is an INCLUDED BLANK SPACE after the code you must REMOVE that is NOT mentioned anywhere. (Can you think of anything more poorly designed?)
Only then will it not bounce back in your face.
Will it still set off the pop-up every time you run it? Yes

It appears in no way compatible with windows 7 64 unless you pull it backwards in time with the tickboxes in the special menus.  Only once I did all the above would it even attempt the registration.

Jumping through hoops like that is just uncalled for. I do appreciate all who helped. 

[dave w]

I missed the point because I don't use a home telephone. That makes a heck of a lot more sense, but seems to over complicate it a bit.

My thoughts are to simplify it and just use one radio (a cell phone) to talk to another radio (the 240V box) cut out the software and USB box.

Elegant and easy. No need to make things needlessly complicated. It is after all automation, and the trouble with the software/USB box is seems to go against that grain. Naturally, this is why I have abandoned the software/USB box idea. 
 
No salesperson told me about it, however the salespages I saw all pointed to externally controlling the hardware with a laptop or whatever and a cell phone would seem close enough.

I may have to read the cell phone manual, to see how it is accomplished- but maybe if I learn how to set up the internet on my cell phone; I can use something like morse code?  A for on and Z for off, and that will be that.  Easy, right? Is that not how it is done?

To be honest, I am surprised no one else would be doing this, and it seems to be such a foreign concept.
I have to ask - *why* is this? Or is this really not it's intended use as I may have misunderstood something along the line?  Seems like things are not lining up the way I had planned.

Yes Lightbulbjones you have come to several wrong conclusions. A cell phone can not talk directly to an X10 Appliance Module controlling your air conditioner, no more than it can talk to your washing machine.. There has to be interfacing, and I can think of only two ways to do it.

The least complicated is: you call your home land line phone with your cell phone. This X10 device    http://www.x10.com/products/x10_tr16a.htm    (if still available) would answer your phone and when you keyed in the proper numbers through your cell phone, would send codes over your homes power line to control the X10 Appliance Module connected to your air conditioner. This is the simplest method.

The only other method would be over the internet which would require a cell phone with internet access, a CM15A with Active Home Pro software connected to a computer connected to the internet all the time. And extra interfacing software to interface internet communication to the the Active Home Pro software which then (again) send control codes over your homes powerlines to the Appliance Module controlling the air conditioner. And that is the relatively "uncharted" area.  At least it sounds like you got the software started.

[Knightrider]

Jones,

Happy to help, but hate to burst your bubble.  The crappy stuff from the 80's is still around, and if you throw me a part number on the unit that you're planning to hook to the AC unit, I can verify.  

Yeah, I know what the site says, but X10 may be pulling a hoodwink.

All is not lost!!  The crappy stuff can be made to work with some tinkering.  And we frequent the chat every night (we the users, not the company).  www.bdshost.com/ac  We're always happy to help in real time.

For the record, my X10 system is fairly large and very reliable.  I run my heat and cool with it and have had very few glitches.

[lightbulbjones]

I am most defiantly going for a walk around the block in very short order.

Having experience with plenty of electrical work and knowing what the old system is, I am simply tempted to curl up in a ball.

Not the news I was hoping for.

I may be able to learn a few things by simply going over more information you have already put together, knightrider thanks! - after the walk of course.

Is there a chance that I would be lucky enough they have made even incremental improvements to the hardware over time or has my luck well run dry for the evening?

So far I've purchased the CM15A, the software in complete (and by some miracle WORKING) form, the HD245-HA
..and a sinking feeling at no extra charge. 

Edit: For clarity. And redundancy.

[Knightrider]

Jones,

I doubt the HD245 has AGC (auto gain control) and is probably old new stock.  The CM15A PLC transmitter is pretty weak as far as transmitters go. 

A forum member by the name of Jeff Volp has created a repeater that almost makes x10 signal propagation foolproof, but comes at an additional expense.

To make matters worse, newer electronics have a tendency to interfere with the signals and may need filters plugged into them (or they into the filter).  Plasma TV's, kelvinators, PC's, and Cell phone chargers are the most frequent offenders.

If you really want to make this work, we'll walk you through it.

[beelocks]

No salesperson told me about it, however the salespages I saw all pointed to externally controlling the hardware with a laptop or whatever and a cell phone would seem close enough.

I'm sorry to say that I found this most entertaining. If a cell phone seems close enough to a computer does that mean that I can wash my dishes in the laundry washer? They seem close enough in both appearance and operation so surely it should be possible.

Although the X10 'junk' has almost endless possibilities, it does need to be connected to the correct communications devices in order to operate. Although we are able to control water shut-off valve with X10, it simply will not work if we balance it atop the water supply and command it to do so - for this we need elves, pixies or genies, although a well trained gnome or leprechaun could probably be motivated to do just as good a job 

It sounds like you have just enough parts to accomplish your need to control an air conditioner by applying and removing power using timers and/or macros.
You will still have your 20-30 year old problems of phase coupling and line noise issues just as you remember them from your previous experiences.

I'm wondering if you're over-complicating things by using X10. Perhaps it might be a good idea if you could let us know what you're trying to accomplish so that we can try to assist. The first (and hardest) part of any engineering problem is to actually define the problem before attempting to come up with a solution. Right now it looks like most of the information you've been given has been to help you with the software problem and explaining how X10 works, but if you just want your air conditioner to turn on at 4pm and off at 10pm then there are probably much easier ways to achieve it.

One VERY important thing to point out that hasn't been addressed is that if your air conditioner needs a 'user intervention' after power has been applied via the 240v outlet then you're almost definitely going to get a book on leprechaun training before it will work.

[Knightrider]

I'm sorry to say that I found this most entertaining. If a cell phone seems close enough to a computer does that mean that I can wash my dishes in the laundry washer? They seem close enough in both appearance and operation so surely it should be possible.

Next time the wife leaves me at home alone, I'm cooking fish in the dishwasher.

Beelocks is correct, you may not need x10.  I have an X10 fetish and want to see what I can cook up next with it.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........

If I plug an extension cord into an appliance module and cut off the female end, strip the wires and wrap them around two 16 penny nails and poke the nails into a hot dog, set it to a code controlled by tuicemen's bluewatch, I could have dinner as soon as I walked in the door (or a serious house fire).

I really need to quit thinking.

[lightbulbjones]

I decided to start with the air conditioner in hopes the system might pay for itself.
Depending on my success I may do more and increase the complication. Otherwise, less.

Leave the temperature the same, but cut it back to a 50% duty cycle when I am not home.
Say half an hour on and then a half hour rest.
Perhaps even less would do, maybe down to 25% runtime but that remains to be seen as air conditioners generally don't like to bounce on and off in short periods. I don't think I would go below 15 or 20 minuets per cycle.  Seems to start okay from No-power while calling for cooling.

The trouble is the "fan" is always blowing and this is inefficient (and likely costly) . The more programmable and co-operative recent plug-in air-conditioners just take a sip of the air in the room every few minuets to see if it is the right temperature (usually as an energy saver setting) and otherwise stay off, and I am aiming to do something similar.

Ceaseless fan operation is blowing for the sake of blowing without accomplishing much but noise and an energy bill. I have ceiling fans for this purpose anyway.  

Obviously, this way I can leave the manual thermostat alone and still have it stay below 80 or so while I am on the job and otherwise cool normally while I am at home. (although I have the option to do a few tricks with it I probably won't, at least initially.)

With regard to cell phones and computers, they seem to have been merging into some sort of hybrid compromise for some time. I would have thought my ideas could be in that range, but I am not a cell phone guy. It's not beyond my imagination - anyhow.  

And finally, washing dishes in a washing machine demands cleaning and rebuilding then constant repainting from chipped enamel to keep it from rusting. You can be sure I was purely undignified with the person who tried that one on me. The dishware was beyond repair, and so was the relationship.