Time to track down the signal sucker

[Brandt]

So I've kinda been letting it go for a while cause I've been busy, but it's finally getting to a point where people are getting irritated.

First note that I have an XTB-IIR in the laundry room which is on the opposite side of the garage as the main breaker panel. I also own an XTBM for troubleshooting. The 120v receptacles near the 240v receptacle where the XTB-IIR is installed read nearly X8.00-X9.00 on the meter.

I have labeled my breakers in the breaker box with numbers and it seems that every receptacle controlled by breaker 11 seems to have an X10 signal of X0.15-X0.30, which as you can imagine nothing X10 works on that circuit.

There are about 11-15 receptacles on this breaker 11 which are the living room, family room, downstairs bedroom, and garage workbench. When I say UNFILTERED that means there is NO X10 noise filter on it.

Living room:
-1 lamp plugged into lamp module UNFILTERED
-big screen TV, DVR, PS3, and high end stereo equipment plugged into a high end power strip which is unfiltered because it affected the sound of the stereo when we tried it. UNFILTERED

Family Room:
-Wine refrigerator UNFILTERED
-China Cabinet plugged into X10 controlled switch UNFILTERED
-power strip for my macbook UNFILTERED

Downstairs Bedroom:
-Networking equipment UNFILTERED
-Alarm clock UNFILTERED
-Fan UNFILTERED
-Computer equipment FILTERED

Garage Workbench:
-computer stuff FILTERED
-power strip with overhead workbench flourescent fixture, soldering iron, and benchtop p/s UNFILTERED


EDIT: I took the filter off my a/v equipment in my room and put it on the power strip my macbook was plugged into and also plugged the wine fridge into it...wow the receptacle after it went from X0.10-X0.18 to ~X2.65 on the meter. It seems to have raised the levels slightly around the other receptacles as well. The macbook power supply sucks a lot of X10!!

[JeffVolp]

The mac power supply probably has a capacitor directly across the AC input to prevent radiation of its own switching signal to the powerline.  I wouldn't expect a problem from the wine fridge unless it uses a thermoelectric cooler driven by some sort of switching power supply.

Jeff

[Brian H]

You would probably see an increase if you filtered the TV,DVR,PS3 High End audio stuff. Yes I know it effects the audio quality. So it will not happen.
2.65 is good so maybe that will all that is needed.

[Brandt]

-The wine fridge has problems of it's own, it's motor makes a lot of noise (time to replace it) and it took away about X1.00 total from the level.

-The 2.65 was on an unused receptacle in the family room, I need to figure out how to raise the level on the receptacles in the living room that the lamps are plugged into. I know the high end audio stuff is not on all the time, but I think it would be ok to separate out the tv, dvr, and ps3 and filter those.

-I just ordered a 4 pack of those cheap XPPF filters. I also have a 5a and 10a filterlinc, and one of those 20a ACT filters. I should actually check the amperage usage of stuff plugged in to more efficiently place the correct filter on it.

[JeffVolp]

The 20A ACT filter should have no impact on the audio equipment because of its low DC resistance - probably less than the powerline itself.  It is a notch filter, and only blocks signals in the 120KHz region.

The XPPF is a low-pass filter, and is more effective at blocking wideband noise.  However, it is best used for loads under 3 amps because it will get warm and begin to stink when pushed to its 5A rating continuously.

Jeff 

[HA Dave]

Downstairs Bedroom:
-Fan UNFILTERED

Many of the noise makers are well documented (CFL, Cell Phone chargers, Laptops). However... I have a [IR] remote control fan... that even when off really disrupts X10 signals.

[Brandt]

ugh, I added XPPFs to the garage workbench receptacle with the (fluorescent fixture, soldering iron, and benchtop p/s).....and an XPPF on the networking equipment.....and the x10 levels are lowerrr....ugh this is frusterating....gotta figure tthis out

[JeffVolp]

Your earlier message said you had increased signal levels on that "problem" circuit to over 2V by isolating the mac power supply with a filter.  With levels like that there should be no problem controlling X10 devices on that circuit unless there is a local noise generator.

The XPPF is a low-pass filter.  Its main function is to attenuate noise propagating through the filter.  While it will also isolate a severe signal sucker, the part of its low-pass filter that shunts noise to ground will also present some load to X10 signals.  If installing it actually reduced the signal levels, then none of those devices were signal suckers.

Jeff

[HA Dave]

and the x10 levels are lowerrr....ugh this is frusterating....gotta figure tthis out

Maybe it would be a good time to start from the beginning by mapping your circuits (written by Puck).

[Brandt]

Your earlier message said you had increased signal levels on that "problem" circuit to over 2V by isolating the mac power supply with a filter.  With levels like that there should be no problem controlling X10 devices on that circuit unless there is a local noise generator.

The XPPF is a low-pass filter.  Its main function is to attenuate noise propagating through the filter.  While it will also isolate a severe signal sucker, the part of its low-pass filter that shunts noise to ground will also present some load to X10 signals.  If installing it actually reduced the signal levels, then none of those devices were signal suckers.

Jeff

Yes that was 2 nights ago...for some reason last night there was around X0.68 on that same receptacle measuring from the same source...of course someone had the big screen tv on until about midnight...i don't remember if it was on or not 2 nights ago....

Anyway I'm just going to have to find time when everyone is out of the house (which is never) and not using their electronics to unplug everything and start with a clean power line.

[Brandt]

and the x10 levels are lowerrr....ugh this is frusterating....gotta figure tthis out

Maybe it would be a good time to start from the beginning by mapping your circuits (written by Puck).

Thanks for the link, I currently only have a spreadsheet with location, type, and breaker #. It looks like he goes further...I could use a map..

I don't know what phase things are one, but I do have an XTB-IIR which should tie it all together.

When following the XTBM troubleshooting guide, I don't really know when I am going toward the breaker or away for the breaker and I'm not sure where the home-run for each circuit is....

[Brian H]

Mapping the home can take some time, but I found in the long run it came in handy.
I have 99 out of 100 items mapped.
The one outlet behind a china closet was not mapped. Never used and I could not move it to use it any way.

[JeffVolp]

Even .68Vpp should work fine.  Here our lowest receptacles read about 1Vpp even with the XTB pumping over 20Vpp into the distribution panel.  Note that other than our special isolated circuit for computers and most A/V equipment, I have done nothing to isolate potential signal suckers.  However, I have filtered most potential noise sources.

When I mapped our last couple of houses, I drew the floorplan and placed a small circle at the location of each electrical device.  Then as I traced the circuits I wrote the circuit breaker number into each of the circles.

Jeff

[Brandt]

Even .68Vpp should work fine.  Here our lowest receptacles read about 1Vpp even with the XTB pumping over 20Vpp into the distribution panel.  Note that other than our special isolated circuit for computers and most A/V equipment, I have done nothing to isolate potential signal suckers.  However, I have filtered most potential noise sources.

When I mapped our last couple of houses, I drew the floorplan and placed a small circle at the location of each electrical device.  Then as I traced the circuits I wrote the circuit breaker number into each of the circles.

Jeff

Oh...you can isolate circuits?!? It looks like this circuit 11 is a prime candidate to be isolated!!

I don't know what phase things are on, but I do have an XTB-IIR which should tie it all together.

When following the XTBM troubleshooting guide, I don't really know when I am going toward the breaker or away for the breaker and I'm not sure where the home-run for each circuit is....

[JeffVolp]

Oh...you can isolate circuits?!? It looks like this circuit 11 is a prime candidate to be isolated!!

When we had this house built, I added one or two receptacles in each room for electronic equipment, and had the electrician wire those on a separate circuit.  That circuit is now fed from a 2200VA true-sinewave UPS, which itself is isolated with the big X10Pro 20A XPF filter.

To identify those receptacles, they are a different color from all other receptacles.  They power the computer, TVs, DVRs, audio system (except the 800W power amp), and small plug-in "wall-wart" power supplies.

Jeff