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[danoathome]

Hi, I am a newbie. Just got a bunch of equipment from friend. I am using a TM751 transceiver and 3 LM465 lamp modules. Each lamp module has a lamp with 60 watt incandescent bulb in it. I am using a HR12A remote. ON and OFF work fine for each lamp. However, when I press the 'down arrow' blue bottom (which I assume means dim) the light just dims until it is completely off. Then I can't seem to get it to brighten back up. Several random ONs and OFFs eventually get the ON and OFF functions working but a press of the dim button dims the light right off. I have been considering buying ActiveHome Pro but my first experience is causing grief. Note that if I use one of the small KR22A remotes the lights behave the same. ON and OFF are OK but one press of the dim button dims the light right off. Can someone help?

[Brian H]

Do the LM465 Lamp Modules have soft start?
That would be where an on or off didn't instantly happen but the light ramped up and down at about a two second time interval.
I am guessing that they are not as the Soft Starts don't dim to 0% anymore.

When you use the down arrow to 0% level. You are saying the blue up arrow does not start it brightening up again?
One thing you will see. If you dim it to 0% it is already on so pushing the on button will not turn it back fully on until it is turned off and not at 0% of On.

[dave w]

However, when I press the 'down arrow' blue bottom (which I assume means dim) the light just dims until it is completely off. Then I can't seem to get it to brighten back up. Can someone help?

I have seen this. It does not happen with all modules, but I have some that if dimmed to off, actually turns off so an ON has to be sent to actually get the module back on. AFAIK there is no fix. It is caused by the triac completely falling out of conduction rather than continuing to supply a small amount of current through the bulb at full dim. Try a 100W bulb and see if it continues.

[danoathome]

What I don't understand is why 1 press of the dim button causes the light to dim all the way off. I have three lamps on LM465 modules (not soft start) and each (and every) one of them dims right off with just 1 push of the dim button. Then no other modules seem to respond to ON commands. I am not sure what clears the problem because after awhile all the modules start to respond to ON and OFF commands but not to DIM commands. One press on the DIM button dims the lights into darkness. I will look for a 100 watt bulb to see if there is a difference. Thanks for helping out...

[Brandt]

are you pushing ON and then DIM, or OFF and then DIM?

[danoathome]

On and then DIM.

[dave w]

What I don't understand is why 1 press of the dim button causes the light to dim all the way off.

I didn't catch that in your original post. I assume you mean one quick press and not one "press and hold".  That is strange, especially if your WS467's are not soft start/resume dim models.
Disregard the 100W bulb suggestion, we were on two different pages.
Since both HR12 and KR22 give you same result, I tend to think the TM751 has a problem. Next time this happens, unplug the TM751 for 5 seconds and see if the light responds to an ON command.

[danoathome]

Dave, the dim always turns the light right down to no light at all so it is easily recreatable. By the way they are lamp modules not switches. And your suggestion to unplug the TM751 works. As soon as I unplug it and plug it back in the lamp modules respond to ON and OFF commands again. But as soon as I touch the DIM button the light dims right down to off and then all modules become unresponsive for some time. Do you think it is the TM751 transceiver that is 'bad'? Wish I had another one to test with....

[Brian H]

I was thinking along the same lines dave w was.
It does sound like the TM751 for some reason is firestorming signals on the power line with the first dim command. Unplugging it resets the electronics. That could also explain why no other commands usually work.

[dave w]

Do you think it is the TM751 transceiver that is 'bad'?

Yes.
But it is a very unusual failure mode. I don't think I have heard this one before, the TM751 has a good reliability record. If new, send it back.

[danoathome]

It isn't new so sending it back isn't an option. I got a bunch of second hand stuff from a friend. Didn't even know what X10 was all about. Starting doing some reading and have been very intrigued by ActiveHome Pro and Bill's Voice Commander. I just wanted to get my feet wet and see that the X10 technology worked before laying out some money for a CM15A and AHP software. Just hope it is an issue with the TM751 and not something funky in my house wiring that will render the CM15A and AHP useless also. May also considering picking up another TM751 or an RR501 before the CM15A/AHP combo just to see if they work. Anyone have an opinion.....?

[dave w]

It isn't new so sending it back isn't an option. I got a bunch of second hand stuff from a friend. Didn't even know what X10 was all about. Starting doing some reading and have been very intrigued by ActiveHome Pro and Bill's Voice Commander. I just wanted to get my feet wet and see that the X10 technology worked before laying out some money for a CM15A and AHP software. Just hope it is an issue with the TM751 and not something funky in my house wiring that will render the CM15A and AHP useless also. May also considering picking up another TM751 or an RR501 before the CM15A/AHP combo just to see if they work. Anyone have an opinion.....?

Well, if you get hooked...and it sounds like you may, plan on having "funkyness" with the home. Read this to get a heads-up on what you MAY encounter.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm

As far as the dim to off problem; I don't see that as being related to a home noise, or coupling problem. I think the TM751 is poo-poo, pee-pee, caa-caa (a technical term meaning "bad").
Yes I would get a new TM751 or RR501 transceiver and play for a bit. Look at some of the X10 "package deals" on X10.com that has a transceiver, remote control, and a couple of Appliance and Lamp modules to get your feet wet before going whole hog.

[Brian H]

I can almost guarantee it is the TM751 going bad.
I have two older Date Code: 00D17 TM751 modules.
I did a test with my test rig powered through an XPPF filter so my XTB-IIR probably didn't get into the mix.
Older LM465 Lamp Module and the TM751. Controlled by a HR12A Palm pad.
Address B1 so both the TM751 and Lamp Module would be controlled on the same address.

One acts normally but the second one with a possible power supply problem did not.

When it warms up it does basically what you are seeing. Sometimes hitting the blue dim from an off. Will set the lamp to 100% as the older modules should do but sometimes it would go to 100% and then dim all the way down to 0%. At that time I could not toggle the internal relay in the TM751 on and off. It was locked up and a power cycle sometimes corrected it. Sometimes it had to cool off first.

I added my ELK ESM-1 to the setup and the bad TM751 was sending a continuous 10 bar stream of X10 signals when the dim acted strange. Sometimes it went to 5 jumping bars of noise as the X10 LED went off. Guess that is why it was getting warmer than normal. Power line transmitter on 100% of the time until power cycled. 

[Brian H]

Did another test.
TM751 and my Smarthome 1132CU monitoring the power line signals.
XTB-IIR Off and both on an XPPF filtered AC.
C is the House Code.
As you can see it looks like a string of Mdim commands started after the Cdim or Cbright command from a HR12A.
I edited out some of the dim strings to make it a smaller file.
R: C1 - 12:46:14 PM 10/26/2010
R: COff - 12:46:15 PM 10/26/2010
R: C1 - 12:46:16 PM 10/26/2010
R: COn - 12:46:17 PM 10/26/2010
R: C1 - 12:46:18 PM 10/26/2010
R: COff - 12:46:18 PM 10/26/2010
R: CBright - 12:46:24 PM 10/26/2010
R: MDim - 12:46:24 PM 10/26/2010
R: MDim - 12:46:25 PM 10/26/2010
R: MDim - 12:46:25 PM 10/26/2010
R: MDim - 12:46:26 PM 10/26/2010
R: MDim - 12:46:26 PM 10/26/2010
Power cycled here.
R: CDim - 12:46:59 PM 10/26/2010
R: MDim - 12:46:59 PM 10/26/2010
R: MDim - 12:47:00 PM 10/26/2010
R: MDim - 12:47:00 PM 10/26/2010
R: MDim - 12:47:00 PM 10/26/2010
R: MDim - 12:47:01 PM 10/26/2010

Local button on the front also was unresponsive.

[JeffVolp]

I use TM751s to relay powerline signals when testing, and I also have seen them issue a steady stream of dim commands from a single button press.  Back when I first ran into it, I thought it was a problem in my firmware, but the source was actually the TM751.  I think I started a thread on that here a couple of years ago.

Several different TM751s of different vintages (including one from Leviton) all exhibited the problem.  As I recall, it seemed to be a function of RF signal strength.  There are some RF transmitters on the ridge across the interstate from us, so interference might also be a factor.

Jeff