Future of X10

[Brian H]

Jeff; Do you know if Leviton manufactures their own products and not use X10 OEM facilities?

I know Smarthome has dropped all their X10 only clones but Insteon does support X10 signaling also. Though they used a different X10 dimming protocol.

I saw one of the online vendors listing the ACT A10 protocol modules as discontinued. Anyone know if A10 is also going to be gone?

[dhouston]

Anyone know if A10 is also going to be gone?

They don't say anything about dropping it on their website.

• http://www.act-solutions.com/index.php

[JeffVolp]

Jeff; Do you know if Leviton manufactures their own products and not use X10 OEM facilities?

I know that some of the Leviton products are just re-branded X10 devices because they are physically identical.  Their high-end stuff have no X10 equivalents.  But I do not know if they were manufactured in the X10 factory or elsewhere.

The ACT 5A plug-in filter looks like the XPPF.  Some of their other products appear to be physically different, but they still could have been manufactured in the same facility.

Jeff

[Brian H]

Thanks for the information Dave and Jeff.

Could be the vendor just decided to drop the ACT modules.

[dhouston]

Their high-end stuff have no X10 equivalents.  But I do not know if they were manufactured in the X10 factory or elsewhere.

The Leviton HCPRF all housecode transceiver electronics do not resemble any of X-10's modules either in the design or quality. The label indicates it was made in Mexico. It uses a Philips P87LPC764FD µC. I would be very surprised if it was made by X-10.

[dave w]

I'm a believer in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  As long as you have some spare modules, there is no reason to switch to another system.

I plan to continue using my X10 system long into the future. 

This is good advice, besides there is always the possibility of someone coming in to fill the void left by X10 Wireless Inc switching gears, or shutting doors...what ever.

Both Smarthome, ACT, PCS, etc. has many X10 protocol products which have been mothballed due to low sales. Maybe one or more of these companies will realize that with the vacuum X10 Wireless folding has created, maybe they can now make a little profit.....I'm just hoping here.

  Jeff!!! What about "V10"?? ACT came out with "A10", I'm thinking "V10" has a nice ring to it.   

[Brian H]

Well Smarthome just redirects you to the Insteon/Icon modules when you look for X10 compatibility.
Except for the one 2000SC LampLinc Essential module that is X10 only.
You can still find for now. Some X10 and X10Pro modules there also.

[JeffVolp]

  Jeff!!! What about "V10"?? ACT came out with "A10", I'm thinking "V10" has a nice ring to it.   

Well, we could certainly dream about something like that - essentially X10 on steroids.  Start with signal levels that would pretty much blow away any noise sources.  Then keep the transmitters within 1% of the center frequency, use narrow-band filters in all receivers to reject any out-of-band noise, and then incorporate AGC to deal with any residual in-band noise.  All that would be backward compatible with the existing modules and switches.

The XTB devices pretty much do that now from a transmitter standpoint.  Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to ever make something like that happen at the receiving end.

Jeff

[Brian H]

Jeff, Not to mention UL or ETL Testing. 

[dave w]

  Jeff!!! What about "V10"?? ACT came out with "A10", I'm thinking "V10" has a nice ring to it.   

Well, we could certainly dream about something like that - essentially X10 on steroids.  Start with signal levels that would pretty much blow away any noise sources.  Then keep the transmitters within 1% of the center frequency, use narrow-band filters in all receivers to reject any out-of-band noise, and then incorporate AGC to deal with any residual in-band noise.  All that would be backward compatible with the existing modules and switches.

Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to ever make something like that happen at the receiving end.

Well let me know if you change your mind, I have a contact in China that could probably set up manufacturing. Far as that is concerned I am a pretty good solderer and still looking for work, so.....

[Noam]

  Jeff!!! What about "V10"?? ACT came out with "A10", I'm thinking "V10" has a nice ring to it.   

Well, we could certainly dream about something like that - essentially X10 on steroids.  Start with signal levels that would pretty much blow away any noise sources.  Then keep the transmitters within 1% of the center frequency, use narrow-band filters in all receivers to reject any out-of-band noise, and then incorporate AGC to deal with any residual in-band noise.  All that would be backward compatible with the existing modules and switches.

Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to ever make something like that happen at the receiving end.

Well let me know if you change your mind, I have a contact in China that could probably set up manufacturing. Far as that is concerned I am a pretty good solderer and still looking for work, so.....

If Jeff ever decides to make a CM15A replacement (something with a web server built in, and ethernet and/or wifi), and one of the others (like Bill or Tuicemen) writes the software, we might be able to get a REALLY great product out of the deal!

I might be looking for work soon, too. My soldering skills aren't good enough to buld a Jeff-quality device, but I'd like to help in some way if I can.

[JeffVolp]

I appreciate all the suggestions and support, but I just don't have the resources to make something like that happen.  Should some other entrepreneur want to take on the production task, I would certainly be available for design support.

Some of you know I have two irons in the fire now.  One is the Pro version of the XTBM that I have been working on whenever I get the chance.

The other is the XTB-232, which is a RS232 powerline interface that supports the CM11A "real-time" protocol.  I have tested that running under the original ActiveHome GUI, HomeSeer, and Home Control Assistant.  Beta units are being tested now.

Sorry, but I have no plans to offer a USB version.

Jeff

[Dan Lawrence]

Just a comment:  If X10 has no future, It's their own fault.   X10 has NEVER mass marketed.  All new purchases are because the user either gets "turned on" by a friend who already has X10 or stumbles on the website by accident.  I got turned on to X10 via a friend in the middle 1980's. I got my first CP290 and DOS software from a long gone Heath store on Joppa Road in Baynesville ( a suburb of Baltimore).   For a short while in the 90's Lowe's  carried lamp and appliance modules, but they didn't sell (mostly because the masses knew zilch about x10 and what it does.) so they dropped it.   A local dealer who ran a x10 "store" out of his house sold X10, but because X10 would not sell small dealers the CM15A he eventually closed his "store".

[JeffVolp]

At the very bottom of their last email:

"WE ARE ABOUT TO SHAKE THINGS UP…

STAY TUNED FOR A GAME-CHANGING NEWS RELEASE."

Jeff

[beelocks]

I had this thought last week.

Is it possible that X10 is headed in a NEW and BETTER direction?

WiFi based home automation with a better range of product and better range distance-wise? WiFi makes more sense than powerline communication, especially since everyone in the business knows all there is to know about phase and noise problems.

Imagine a home where you can plug in an appliance module (dimming module / thermostat / pump switch / curtain motor / fire detector / humidity sensor / motion sensor / camera), your router is able to see it and identify it, and the whole SYSTEM just WORKS.
Imagine the grants available for a system that will offer true energy savings because it will work.
Imagine being able to control 6v, 12v, 24v, 110v devices as well as clean relays with the only proviso being that you need to give it some electric to play with (and a WiFi router to talk to)

This would also leave to powerline clear for their Westinghouse intercoms which may (or may not) increase noise on the lines to the point where the old X10 no longer works. Jeff will be sure to tell me that it uses a different system and cannot possibly interfere

Would I pay $30 to $50 for each module? Would I pay $100 to $200 for the software? Where do I sign?

I'm not ready to panic buy the X10 powerline and RF components on the off-chance that X10 has decided to announce that their 35+ year old technology is finally outdated and ready to be replaced with something that's right for today's market.