Stick-a-switch Intermittent Working

[Dave4720]

I have several Stick-A-Switch units (SS13A), and they all are VERY inconsistent on operation.  The first poke of a particular button of any Stick-A-Switch is highly unlikely to work.  Sometimes the second or third press will work.  I just have no faith in the switch - I can’t walk by and press and walk on - I have to wait for the controlled device to respond, and when it does not, I press again.

Interesting enough, my 2-button remotes and 4-button credit card remotes and palm pads always work just fine.

I have both RR501 (one house) and V572 RF Transceiver (other house).  It’s only the Stick-A-Switch units that have issues.

Does the Stick-A-Switch have a history of not working that well?  Any insights?

[Brian H]

They are reported to have poor RF range.
I have seen nothing on the buttons themselves being intermittent.
Here is one passive antenna idea used by some.
http://www.davehouston.net/X10_feng_shui.htm

[Dan Lawrence]

My  Stick-a-switch in the Breakfast Room has lost its housecode (F) and gone back to (A) THREE TIMES so out came the battery and the SS13A went in the trashcan (the real one) and a new one ordered.   

[Dave4720]

They are reported to have poor RF range.

Ok ... as opposed to 2-button remotes or 4-button credit card remotes?

I will put 4-button credit card remote in same position as S-A-S and see if I get better results.  I do notice a trimmer cap on the S-A-S board ... perhaps one needs to align the transmitter to the exact frequency.   Maybe time to pull out the spectrum analyzer.

[Noam]

They are reported to have poor RF range.

Ok ... as opposed to 2-button remotes or 4-button credit card remotes?

I will put 4-button credit card remote in same position as S-A-S and see if I get better results.  I do notice a trimmer cap on the S-A-S board ... perhaps one needs to align the transmitter to the exact frequency.   Maybe time to pull out the spectrum analyzer.

When you press the button on the S-A-S, does the light blink? If not, it might be a bad contact under the button, or a weak battery.
If the light responded just fine, then it might be an issue due to the poor transmit range, coupled with the poor RF reception range of the CM15A. In that case, a different remote, a CM15A antenna mod, a S-A-S reflector antenna, or maybe even repositioning the S-A-S might help.

[Noam]

My  Stick-a-switch in the Breakfast Room has lost its housecode (F) and gone back to (A) THREE TIMES so out came the battery and the SS13A went in the trashcan (the real one) and a new one ordered.   

Did you test to make sure the battery was still good? The weak battery might have been causing it to reset to housecode A.
It could have also been caused by bent or dirty battery contacts.

[Dave4720]

When you press the button on the S-A-S, does the light blink? If not, it might be a bad contact under the button, or a weak battery.
If the light responded just fine, then it might be an issue due to the poor transmit range, coupled with the poor RF reception range of the CM15A. In that case, a different remote, a CM15A antenna mod, a S-A-S reflector antenna, or maybe even repositioning the S-A-S might help.

Did you test to make sure the battery was still good? The weak battery might have been causing it to reset to housecode A.
It could have also been caused by bent or dirty battery contacts.

I should have been more detailed.  With two separate units, the red light blinks fine.  Although it takes two or more presses, they will eventually work, so I know the codes are still retained.  I have also changed batteries.  We're also talking RR501 and V572 receivers, no CM15A.

It's almost ... as if ... the oscillator does not instantly come up right on frequency.  There’s no heating going on here, so it’s not like it’s temperature drift.

Here are some high tech questions:  If one holds the button, the LED continues to flash.  Does the command get transmitted each flash?  Or multiple times as the button is held?  Is it AM or FM modulation?  If the command gets transmitted only once, and the continuous LED flash is just for operator fuzzies, then perhaps the oscillator start-up and subsequent command encoding occurs before things are really stabilized, and the command (to the receiver) gets corrupted.  Maybe that’s why a subsequent press most times works.  If the command repeats, then you’d think the subsequent commands would be stable.

[Brian H]

SS13A:
Push Button one single LED Flash:
R: A1 - 3:32:06 PM 10/12/2011
R: AOn - 3:32:06 PM 10/12/2011

Hold Button 2 LED Flash more than one time:
R: A2 - 3:32:11 PM 10/12/2011
R: AOn - 3:32:11 PM 10/12/2011
R: A2 - 3:32:12 PM 10/12/2011
R: AOn - 3:32:12 PM 10/12/2011
R: A2 - 3:32:13 PM 10/12/2011
R: AOn - 3:32:13 PM 10/12/2011
R: A2 - 3:32:14 PM 10/12/2011
R: AOn - 3:32:15 PM 10/12/2011
R: A2 - 3:32:15 PM 10/12/2011
R: AOn - 3:32:16 PM 10/12/2011
R: A2 - 3:32:16 PM 10/12/2011
R: AOn - 3:32:17 PM 10/12/2011

You can find schematics and frequency charts on the FCC web site. In the Details Tab.
Grantee: B4S
Product code SS13A
http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/

http://www.davehouston.net/rf.htm

[dhouston]

It's almost ... as if ... the oscillator does not instantly come up right on frequency.  There’s no heating going on here, so it’s not like it’s temperature drift.

No, that's not it. The receiver has both AGC and ATC (Automatic Threshold Control) and with weak signals, such as these switches, it needs 2-3 copies of the 5 copies sent with each button press to acquire a copy that it can decode and act on.

You can see it illustrated in the third 'scope screenshot here...

• http://davehouston.org/rf-noise.htm

Those who suggested improving the antenna were right on target.

[Brian H]

If the SAS is new. It could be a different design than the older ones.
X10 was in the process of redesigning things with more modern parts.
You may even find a Saw device for the frequency determination.

[Dan Lawrence]

My  Stick-a-switch in the Breakfast Room has lost its housecode (F) and gone back to (A) THREE TIMES so out came the battery and the SS13A went in the trashcan (the real one) and a new one ordered.   

Did you test to make sure the battery was still good? The weak battery might have been causing it to reset to housecode A.
It could have also been caused by bent or dirty battery contacts.

The battery was a month old, and the contacts were fine.  It would go back to housecode A with no cause except itself.

[Dave4720]

Ok, what about this …

My S-A-S are always firing a macro, ‘cause what I’m controlling is not three codes in series.

Did you say the S-A-S sends out multiple transmissions of the same code?  Then could my CM11A be stepping on itself?

Maybe time to get out the XTBM …

Hey Jeff, anyway to mod the XTBM to read phone-jack commands from the V572 receiver directly?

[dhouston]

Did you say the S-A-S sends out multiple transmissions of the same code?  Then could my CM11A be stepping on itself?

The CM11A doesn't receive RF. Whatever does transceive your RF to PLC is smart enough to only send one PLC command in the 500-600mS it takes for the 5-6 copies of the RF. Besides, it takes longer for the PLC command than the multiple copies of the RF.

Try the antenna suggestions and be done with all this needless speculation!  

The Stick-a-Switches were some of the worst X-10 RF devices in terms of signal strength. The coat-hanger fix was measured as a 10dB omnidirectional increase by a skeptical engineer who had access to an RF lab.

[Dan Lawrence]

Did you say the S-A-S sends out multiple transmissions of the same code?  Then could my CM11A be stepping on itself?

The CM11A doesn't receive RF. Whatever does transceive your RF to PLC is smart enough to only send one PLC command in the 500-600mS it takes for the 5-6 copies of the RF. Besides, it takes longer for the PLC command than the multiple copies of the RF.

Try the antenna suggestions and be done with all this needless speculation!  

The Stick-a-Switches were some of the worst X-10 RF devices in terms of signal strength. The coat-hanger fix was measured as a 10dB omnidirectional increase by a skeptical engineer who had access to an RF lab.

I use RR501 Transceivers as they are "polite" and both are within 8 feet of the Stick-a-Switch.

[Knightrider]

My 501 is within 5 feet of the ss13, and I'm starting to have problems.  I'm guessing it's the power cell failing.  SS13 is a great idea in theory, but it's less in practice. 

I'm seriously contemplating cutting a handi-box into the wall and going with a keypadlinc.  Never ever had a problem with one of those.