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[Moroff]

I have just installed a WS13a on a circuit with five 2watt LED bulbs in. It turns on and off just fine, but in the off state it still allows 33vac through. Thus the LED's stay on very dim and they are non-dimmable (hope it doesn't damage them). Is there a way to block this leakage, resistor maybe? Switch is good, I tried another one I had, with same results.

[Brian H]

Very low current LED bulbs may glow from the circuit that tells the module if it is On or Off.
Easiest fix is a small low wattage incandescent night light bulb. 4 watts usually does the trick.

Some have used resistors with success but you have to be very careful on how you use and connect them. For safety reasons.
47K 1/2W has been used. Going much lower in value would require a higher wattage for a safety margin.

[Moroff]

Thanks Brian. So do you or anyone else think it would be bad for the LED's just to leave them glow? I put my amp clamp on the line and it reads 0.00amps, so I don't think I'm wasting any energy by leaving it the way it is. I just don't want to wreck five $15.00 LED bulbs.

[dave w]

Thanks Brian. So do you or anyone else think it would be bad for the LED's just to leave them glow? I put my amp clamp on the line and it reads 0.00amps, so I don't think I'm wasting any energy by leaving it the way it is. I just don't want to wreck five $15.00 LED bulbs.

If they are the bulbs with many standard T1 LEDs in the fixture, no shouldn't hurt.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PCS-NEW-GU10-38-LED-110V-120V-Light-Bulb-FLOOD-WHITE-/170732714655?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c0767a9f

If the bulbs have one, to three, large die LEDs, maybe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pcs-High-Power-LED-GU10-Bulb-3W-120V-Warm-white-NEW-/290527103795?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a4c3cb33

Is hard to tell, but if they are dimly lit, it will probably be OK.

I would be concerned with the large die type bulbs because they have built in power supplies which may not like low voltage, low current leakage.

Brians night light suggestion, which acts like a leakage bypass, is the safe way to go if you have the large die scenario.

[Brian H]

I don't know if the LED bulbs would be harmed with the small current.
It may depend on the electronics in it.
dave w covered that quite nicely.

I did a test with an X10Pro XPS3 that is an X10 WS13A. Date Code 04L51
The highest Off current I could read was 0.30 mA AC. With a 4 watt night light bulb.
3.6 Watt 36 LED Bulb 0.03 mA AC
1.5 Watt 15 LED Bulb 0.10 mA AC

3.0 Watt High Intensity 100-240 Volt LED Bulb 0.12 mA AC
This one is a large die type and has done strange things with some older X10 modules with local sensing

[Moroff]

These are the ones I'm using:

http://www.amazon.com/Feit-BPPAR30-LED-Flood-Reflector/dp/B0037MXETC

I'm using them as dusk till dawn lights on my front porch. I don't think they have a power supply in them, they are sealed glass, no aluminum heat sink or venting of any kind.
I like the 4w night light idea, but can't think of a place to put it in the circuit.

Thank you much for the info.

[Brian H]

I could not find any real information on the Feit web site. Other than the bulb was listed.
Some other sites indicated it had 36 LEDs and used about 2 watt of power.
I think you maybe correct. They are probably like the domed ones I have. A few resistors and diodes to supply power and current limit the drive to the 36 LEDs. Glowing probably will not be a problem.

You have all five of the bulbs on one WS13A?

[Moroff]

Yes all five are on one WS13A. Pulls about 0.15amps total when on. 

Any idea why they say non-dimmable when it looks like they are?

[Brian H]

I doubt they draw close to the minimum load current needed to keep a triac in a dimmer conducting correctly.
If the bulbs have some simple resistor and diode power supplies. They also may not function with a partial AC waveform.

I have some dimmable 8 watt Ecosmart LED bulbs. They have electronics in them that use ICs designed to dim high current LEDs and keep most dimmers happy.

[Moroff]

Thank you Brian and Dave.

I'm going to just leave them glow and see what happens. I'll be sure to post if anything goes bad.

Happy Holidays

[Brian H]

Sounds like a plan to me.

I have a crude test for my LED and CFL lights.
I use a small Radio Shack portable amplifier and a solar cell to generate a small signal.
If the bulbs are using a fairly raw 60 cycles power. It hums loudly on the amp.
If it uses a high frequency power supply it may hiss and have a small hum from power supply on the amp.
All the small multi LED bulbs I tried including a Sylvania 22 LED undercounter light. Give me a very loud hum.
So my guess is yours are also using AC. A few diodes and resistors to drive the LEDs and the glow will not harm them.