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[Gwohi]

My electric bill has gone through the roof, so I switched out some 75 watt par 30 flood lights with comparable dimmable CFLs.  Now my x10 system has gone haywire.  Lights all over the house turn on randomly, even the ones I didn't touch.  I'm fed up and have decided to remove x10 completely, but I can't seem to keep the lights from turning on at random.  I've tried clearing all macros and timers from the interface, removing the interface completely from the outlet, unplugging the antenna receivers from outlets, etc.  Only thing that seems to work is shutting off the breakers (but problem resurfaces when I turn breakers back on).  What can I do?  How can I get rid of x10?  Do I need to go through the house and replace all the wall switches and replace with standard wall switches?  Thanks.

[Brian H]

If the switches where the standard X10 two wire ones.
As you have found out. They do not work with CFLs. As that steal power through the bulbs and the electronics in a CFL don't handle it correctly.

You can go back to one incandescent bulb on each switch if they control more than one bulb.
If you are electrically talented. You could try a resistor across the fixtures.
You could substitute WS13A relay type switches if you have a neutral in the switch box.
Go back to all manual switches.

[dave w]

Do I need to go through the house and replace all the wall switches and replace with standard wall switches?  Thanks.

IF I was dumping X10, I would dump everything. The problem is the two wire wall switches are made ONLY for incandescent bulbs.

But putting one incandescent bulb on each wall switch may solve.

[HA Dave]

IF I was dumping X10, I would dump everything.

I agree with dave w. Actually... I think anything worth doing is worth doing right. So lets back up to the beginning.

My electric bill has gone through the roof, so I switched out some 75 watt par 30 flood lights with comparable dimmable CFLs.  Now my x10 system has gone haywire.

So what's the point? How many dozens of floodlights did you replace? I mean even if you replaced twenty of the outdoor 75 watt bulbs with 56 CFL replacements the saving would be what... 20-25 cents a night? Maybe motion sensors (X10 or otherwise) would have saved a LOT more.

Unless of course you mean the indoor "can lights mounted in ceilings" (which is a whole other can of worms). I have two rooms full of those "can lights" and I hate them. We vacuum once or twice a week in my house... and "can lighting" is great for that... but they suck at lighting a room. One standing lamp lights one room better than does eight can lights. What a waste!

The average American home uses less than 12% of their electric use on lighting. Even if you could cut lighting costs in half... the total saving would be LESS THAN 6%. However... what generally happens is people replace their old lights with CFL's then after a period of living in the dark turn on MORE of the CFL's, or add more lighting. I've read that no study has yet to show households actually save ANY money by switching to CFL's alone. Although I have heard anecdotal stories of people realizing UNbelievable savings.

The first step in every project isn't doing... it's studying. Find out where, and how your energy is being consumed. Then research alternatives and plan a solution. Calculate (actually using your electric bill, calculator, and pencil) to figure out a real solution. Don't get me wrong I use mostly CFL's as well as several LEDs. I am NOT anti-CFL.... I just haven't found the problem that they are the solution for... yet.

It is very unlikely that ripping out your X10 did you any good whatsoever... as far as reducing your electric bill. And.. if you had a decent X10 setup... you increased risks and reduced convenience. PLUS, if you had just one macro that would have shut off lights left on when the home was unoccupied... that could have saved real money. You might have actually increased your monthly electric bill by removing X10. Although I don't advocate Home Automation as a green technology... I know some people do.

I'd start over, from the beginning. Start by finding out how your using that electric your paying for. Then calculate the actual saving of each change you consider. I am sure you'll find the results more satisfying.

[Tuicemen]

The questions was: How do I disable x10 completely?

What can I do?  How can I get rid of x10?  Do I need to go through the house and replace all the wall switches and replace with standard wall switches?  Thanks.

Since your interested in stopping random on/off trips of your lights any you don't wish to try to solve the issue.
And you truely wish to get rid of X10 then, Yes you'll need to replace your outlets and switches.
Others will chime (some already have) making suggestions but you didn't ask how to make it more reliable!
 

[Gwohi]

Thanks for the tips.  I'm confident the cfls will save me money.  They are the recessed ceiling cans that I replaced.  I have 75 of them in the house and another 20 exterior.  I live in hawaii and our electricity rates are by far the highest in the nation, over triple the national average.  My electric bill was $1,400 last month, and we only run our a/c at night.  It's brutal.  Ill try putting one incandescent bulb in each circuit, that's a good idea.  Hopefully that will help.  Last night I tried clearing all macros and timers from the interface, but that didn't work.  Then I tried turning off all macros, modules and timers and downloaded that to the interface, but that didn't work either.  I can't even count how many wall switches I have, replacing them all will be a big job.

[HA Dave]

...... And you truely wish to get rid of X10 then, Yes you'll need to replace your outlets and switches.

You know I read that part too... and agreed with dave w about removing (dumping) everything. And agree with you too Tuicemen. But I was drawn to the first part of his topic sentence...

My electric bill has gone through the roof, ....

I know times are tough for bunches of people. Also in many American communities electric prices are rising due to increased regulation and closing powerplants. So I decided to mostly address the original problem mentioned by the OP... the electric bill.

I know I sometimes choose a different direction than some others with my replies. But I think the mix of replies just adds to the completeness of the responces. If I am reading your post correctly Tuicemen... I too would like to see the OP rethink his idea of removing his X10.

[HA Dave]

Thanks for the tips.  I'm confident the cfls will save me money.  They are the recessed ceiling cans that I replaced.  I have 75 of them in the house and another 20 exterior.  I live in hawaii and our electricity rates are by far the highest in the nation, over triple the national average.  My electric bill was $1,400 last month, and we only run our a/c at night.  It's brutal.

That makes me think that my thoughts about your electric bill being important was a decent call. But once again... it is very unlikely that your lighting is much of a part of that bill. It is much more likely a bad ground or similar problem. If you'd done the math... I am just guessing you'd say something like I expect to save almost $9 a month due to reduced electric use.

Last night I tried clearing all macros and timers from the interface, but that didn't work.  Then I tried turning off all macros, modules and timers and downloaded that to the interface, but that didn't work either.

AHP has a recycle (trash) bin. Empty that... THEN reload the black settings. Remove the battery's from the unplugged interface wait 10 secs... then plug it back in.

[Tuicemen]

This forum is one of the best places on the web to get helpful info to make X10 systems more reliable.
It is sad that many users come here to bash x10 or complain.
Not that Gwohi is doing that!
This forum was created to help promote Home Automation and help users get reliable systems.
What Gwohi tried to do to reduce the eletric bill most likely increased it.
True CFLs will help cut costs if you get good ones not those you find at the dollar store.
I reduced my electic bill by 1/2 by switching and that was when the first pig tail ones came out.
True I had some before that but they were expensive and noisy.
Now LEDs are getting a big boost with the incandesents being phased out.
These will help reduce ones electic bill even more.
How well they'll work with X10 I'm sure will increase with time.
After all they work well on my Christmas tree and a lamp module.
 

[beelocks]

Is it possible that all those CFLs are causing noise that the X10 controller is interpreting as valid (and seemingly random) on/off commands?

If so, I would think that a single incandescent in each circuit would not likely remove enough noise to overcome the random on/offs.

1) If you're set on the idea of using CFLs, then you should probably remove X10 switches so that there is nothing left to interpret noise as signals.

2) If you want the convenience of X10, then you could try removing CFLs until the random on/offs go away.

3) If you want both CFLs and X10, then you need to get some diagnostics going to attempt to find the source of the random on/offs.

Based on what your original post is asking, I would go for 1)

[MD Corie]

I have no good answer for the original question, but do have a few thoughts that may address some of the other issues raised in the replies:

First, my own experience with CFLs and X10 is not good.  First off (as already mentioned) the CFLs will not work with several types of X10 devices (mainly the dimmable switches) due to reasons already alluded to by others.  But worse, they tend to introduce electrical noise that can and does cause disruption of X10 commands (although, in my experience, the noise has only served to suppress X10 operation, not to cause spurrious operations).  The only way I've been able to use CFLs in some locations is to install filters between the CFLs' fixtures and the main electrical system.  IMO, this is not worth any benefits that are presumably offered by CFLs.  (One thing that has always puzzled me is why "ordinary" florescent lights do not seem to disrupt X10 signals nearly as much as CFLs do....  )

Second, my electric bill has increased noticably since installing X10 devices.  This is mainly due to two things:
1) All of the X10 devices draw some amount of electricity for their own operation - even when in "stand by".
2) Due to the macro mis-behavior issues that afflict my AHP system (discussed in detail in another thread ), I have a lot of controlled devices - like floodlights, etc. - that are turning on when not needed, and staying on.  Almost all of my outdoor lighting is controlled directly or indirectly via X10, so instead of helping (by having the lights come on only when needed), it is instead causing a situation that approaches dusk-to-dawn operation.  Since I put in a lot of floodlights to support my X10 cameras at night, this means there is a lot of electricity being wasted by lights being on when not needed.  (Sort of shot myself in the foot with this one... )

Third, The behaviors that the OP mentioned are an exaggeration of the troubles I see that seem to be resulting from AHP macro misbehaviors.  As he indicated that he is using AHP macros, the parallels are intriguing;  so I'm wondering if there is something "external" that is contributing to the AHP macro problems - and because he reported his problems developed upon switching to CFLs, it makes me go into hmmm... mode.  But what could CFLs be doing that would screw up macro opeations?  Could their noise be fouling the processor in the interface?  I wonder...

[dave w]

I have 75 of them in the house and another 20 exterior.  

95 can lights. Is that a house or a hotel?  

If all your 75W incandescent bulbs  lights are on, you are sucking an easy 7kW per hour just in lights. At $0.35 for a kWh I could see five or six hundred dollars just for lighting per month as a high figure. But I doubt you are burning 95 cans for 10 hours every night (my worst case figuring). Switching to 23W CFLs will knock that down around 2/3 or so, but is a complete guess as to whether X10 will be usable when all CFl bulbs are ON (with one incandescent in the string to supply steady power to the switch electronics). And things are likely to get worse if/when you dim them.

I would at least try the present X10 system with CFLs since X10 allows you to remotely turn off lights not in use. But you must get at least one incandescent bulb in each of wall switch strings. All CFLs can cause random turn-ons with the two wire wall switches. Not necessarly due to noise since the CFL is quiet when off, but because of variations in the loading of the wall switch when the switch is off.

[Noam]

I'm guessing the "random turn-ons" are due to noise from the CFLs, and/or use of CFLs with dimming switches designed only for incandescent bulbs.

Replacing an X10 switch with a "standard" toggle will cost you about $0.50 each (plus the cost of an electrician if you can't do it yourself).

Depending on your house wiring (if you have a neutral wire in the box with the switches), you may be able to replace the X10 dimming switches with "relay" type ones. Smarthome recently introduced a line of them for about $20 each.

I second the motion to examine your electricity usage, and determine where you are really spending the money.
You say you only run the A/C at night. However, is it running ALL night?
What about other appliances? Do you have an electric stove, oven, clothes dryer, or hot water heater? One of those might be contributing more to the electric bill than the lights are.

You said you bill was over $1400 last month. Was that a sudden increase? What was it before?

[Gwohi]

Our home is about 4,500 sq ft, a nice home, but not a hotel. It just has a lot of recessed cans.  When we purchased the home 6 years ago (it came with x10 throughout) our electric bill ran around $600/mo.  Since that time, hawaii electric rates have more than doubled...to 35 cents/kwh on Oahu, the cheapest of the islands.  My bill had been running around $1,100 but recently spiked to $1,400 because the electric utility raised their rates again and the fuel surcharges jumped with the rising price of oil.  I finally hit my breaking point and have decided to do everything I can to reduce my electricity costs, no matter how small...thus the change to cfls.  The a/c runs during he night, but not all night.  We set the thermostat to 73 degrees, so not freezing cold.

There were three switches that had all cfls, so I switched out some bulbs so that there is at least one incandescent on each switch.  Seemed to work well for a few hours, but I just returned home from running some errands and two light switches had turned on while I was gone (not ones that had cfls and not ones that ever turned on before).  I'm going to try to remove the batteries inside the interface to see if maybe that will help. 

Thanks for all the great advice.  I'll keep trying different things until these darn lights stop turning on....I just hope I don't have to swap out all the wall switches to do it.

[HA Dave]

35 cents/kwh ... My bill had been running around $1,100 but recently spiked to $1,400 because the electric utility raised their rates again

Maybe my math is off.... I don't think so... but that cost is just way too out of line compared to a normal amount of use. I'd guess you have a problem that may have coinsided with the rate increases. I'd do a quick energy audit... and find out what's wrong.

Things to look for that I know can cause huge increases are: Hot water leaks and drips (assuming you use electric to heat your water). Believe it or not just one dripping faucet can turn a hot water heater into 2400 watt always on money burner. Of course defrost coils built into refrigeration units can do similar things (although rarely). If your heating your pool.... and thinking CFL's are a good savings idea.... please don't tell me. Just some ideas.

Your area of the world is perfect for solar applications... and lighting, and hot water are perfect uses for solar.