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[kita]

Hi all -  I've had my system running several years now, with no more than the usual problems...with some tweaking, it's actually been running pretty nicely.  About a month ago, a new problem has cropped up...no changes to the system at all, but now, 5 or 6 times a week, 4 different light and/or appliance modules turn themselves on starting at midnight and taking about 15 minutes to get around to all 4.

I've done the usual...remove batteries and re download all timers and macros, etc.

This is driving me nuts, as I get up to do the nightly bathroom thing around 2 and the whole house is ablaze!

Any ideas would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks,

[kenrad]

Sounds to me like your system has introduced some noice on the line some where are there devices on the same phase of the electric circuit.  I would also consider if you have added any new electronic Items, cell phone charges ect.  The 120 to 12 v transformers and huge noise creators. also I have heard that when some of the CFL start to go bad they can create a lot of line noise.  Hope this helps


  Ken

[kita]

Thanks, but I don't think anything has been added...also, the timing...how would something like new noise always happen at midnight?  There are no CFl's turned on at that time, typically. 

Also, just to let everyone know...we got our smart meter several years ago, and this problem hasn't exists until last month.

[Noam]

If you don't have anything that changes in your house around midnight, perhaps you have a neighbor that does. Noise can come in from another house on the same transformer.
A while back, I had a similar problem (certain lights refused to work, only at night). It turned out to be a neighbor's CFL going bad. His porch lights came on each evening with a timer, which explains why the problems only happened at night for me. Once I figured it out (he removed one bulb at a time until we figured out which one was causing the problem), I bought him a new bulb.

You might have something similar to this. Perhaps a neighbor is getting home late, and turning on a bunch of stuff past midnight.
If you have AHP and a CM15A, Have you looked in the Activity Monitor to see if there are any commands coming through during that time?

[kita]

Hi - Thanks for the reply...

I have looked at the activity and it's always the same, right at midnight it starts turning stuff on.  Always, right at midnight.
That makes me wonder if it is somehow clock related.  I have changed all computer scheduled tasks to not start at that time, but it hasn't changed the Active home behavior.
The activity monitor show transmit...such and such, just as if I had asked for it to happen. 

do you think the computer (or AHP's own) clock could be doing this somehow?

Thanks, again

[Knightrider]

Do you have a smart meter that could be checking in at midnight?

[kita]

Well, maybe, but like I said, we've had our smart meter for several years now, and the problem just started a month ago....

Do you think it's possible the utility company just activated the meter for new uses that it hadn't had going on in the past?
Maybe that 's it.  I donno 0(

[dhouston]

Do you think it's possible the utility company just activated the meter for new uses that it hadn't had going on in the past?
Maybe that 's it.

That's a possibility. They may have gone from manual readings to RF readings to reading over their wires with different effects on X10. Another possibility - the data concentrators used have a very wide dynamic range and will increase the amplitude of their signals (several fold) in response to noise. A failing CFL might trigger that even before causing X10 problems itself.

[Noam]

... The activity monitor show transmit...such and such, just as if I had asked for it to happen.  

do you think the computer (or AHP's own) clock could be doing this somehow?

If you are seeing "Transmit" events in the AHP Activity Monitor, and no "receive" events before then, it sounds to me like your computer is doing the sending.
Are you sure that you don't have any timers set to run at that time?
What about in your "recycle bin"? Timers and macros have been reported to continue running, even after deleted, until the Recycle Bin is emptied.
I'd suggest checking all your timers again, emptying the Recycle bin, clearing the CM15A's memory, and re-downloading.

[JeffVolp]

There have been numerous reports of X10 systems misbehaving after installation of a smart meter.  A common denominator in most of those reports is unintended actuations.  That usually means lights turning on when they are not supposed to, usually sometime during the night.  I understand that some utility companies download data from the meters during the night when the powelines are the quietest, and that communication may be behind the unintended actuations.

The meter that seems to be giving the most trouble is made by Echelon.  It is communicating with the data aggregator over the powerline at frequencies near enough to the X10 bandpass to cause problems.  The largest concentration of problems appears to be in the Duke Energy Cincinnati service area.  To their credit, Duke seems to be actively trying to find a solution.

I have worked with a customer in the Cincinnati area to come up with an in-home solution:

http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=26056

Jeff

[Noam]

Jeff -
If the meter has been in place for a while, I would suspect that is less likely the culprit (although they might have just turned on some remote data gathering).
Since he is seeing "Transmit" commands in the Activity log, there must be something triggering these. I don't remember seeing any reports of the "phantom turn-ons" from the Echelon smart meters actually showing up in the Activity Monitor, and certainly not as a "transmit".

I know that the smart meter signals can cause "noise" which can fool the devices into thinking they are real commands, but I've never heard of the same case fooling a CM15A into running stuff that way, especially without logging it.

My guess is there is a timer or macro that is not set correctly, or perhaps a phantom turn-on that is triggering a macro ( but then AHP should see a "receive" for it, right?)

[JeffVolp]

I missed the transmit command in the log file.  That indeed does sound like something being initiated by the computer.

Regarding the smart meter, I have been receiving a lot of email recently describing sudden problems like this.  Often it is due to a recent addition of a smart meter.  In one case the utility company was planning to install a smart meter, but had not done so yet.  I suspect the communication was already be out on the powerline talking to his neighbor's meters.

Jeff

[Noam]

Regarding the smart meter, I have been receiving a lot of email recently describing sudden problems like this.  Often it is due to a recent addition of a smart meter.  In one case the utility company was planning to install a smart meter, but had not done so yet.  I suspect the communication was already be out on the powerline talking to his neighbor's meters.

Are most (or all) of these from Duke customers with Echelon meters, or are you getting them from other utility companies and other meter brands?

[JeffVolp]

Are most (or all) of these from Duke customers with Echelon meters, or are you getting them from other utility companies and other meter brands?

Almost everyone who identified the meter said it was an Echelon.  And the Cincinnati area pops up a lot.

Jeff

[whatthe]

I'm a newbe and have been spending hours reading posts in the forums. I can't resist throwing a couple of cents in here and there. I hope I don't become a pest. I was just thinking about what would be timed at that time of night and thought water softener but that would be days apart.