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[VTGlcokster]

I just installed Bay Web's internet based thermostats in my duplex.  They have an occupancy sensor feature using X10 wireless motion detectors.  The sensor closest to the boiler room works perfectly, but the apartment located on the opposite side of the house has an intermittent at best.  I have placed the sensor as close to the boiler room as possible, but it still doesn't work reliably.

I believe I need a wireless repeater but everything I see when I google the term x10 wireless repeater is discontinued.  I am new to X10 technology so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[dave w]

Nope. The X10 repeater is long gone and there is no substitute. However there is some "hacks" which can be applied to the "XXXEye" models of X10 motion sensors whic helps to extend their range. Serchthis forum for "passive repeater" "motion sensor range" "MS16A range". It is basically hot gluing a 18 inch wire on the left side of the sensor. What is acting as the receiver/transceiver for the X10 motion sensors?

[VTGlcokster]

The Bay Web thermostat control module in the boiler room is acting as the transceiver.  It's located about 20' away and 8' under the motion sensor.  There are two sound proof walls one the first floor and a 8" concrete wall in the basement that are impeding the signal.

Bay Web's user manual says to extend the antennae by wire nutting another piece of wire to the control module.  I tried that with about 10' of 18 gauge speaker wire but I had no luck.  Should I use a different type of wire or different length of wire?

[dhouston]

Bay Web's user manual says to extend the antennae but wire nutting another piece of wire to the control module.  I've tried that with about 10' of 18 gauge speaker wire but I had no luck.  Should I use a different wire or different length of wire?

I assume you mean 10 inches - 10 feet is likely to cause problems rather than cure them.

You might improve things by adding a passive radiator to the motion detector. See...

• http://davehouston.org/X10_feng_shui.htm

[VTGlcokster]

Nope I meant 10 feet.  The manual didn't say how long to extend the antennae so I brought the wire as close to the motion detector as possible.

[VTGlcokster]

I'm using a PMS02 motion detector.  Does anyone know which side I would mount the external antennae to and how long it should be?

[dhouston]

18" is optimal and it doesn't much matter which side - just mount it as close to the motion sensor as possible. In my measurements of signal strength, horizontal vs. vertical did not make much difference.

Does the Bay Web unit have an FCC ID on the case? Is there a users manual online?

[VTGlcokster]

I'll have to check on the FCC ID number.  I suspect it does.

Here's the link to the User Guide.

http://www.bayweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/BW-WT4-1DOC.pdf

Thanks,
Andy

[dhouston]

I assume you have changed the X10 address (p14 of manual) of the apartment motion sensor.

If you are not already using the one wired input, you might consider using a wired occupancy sensor for the apartment. Of course, this depends on how easily you can install the needed wiring.

[dave w]

I'm using a PMS02 motion detector.  Does anyone know which side I would mount the external antennae to and how long it should be?

Yeah, 18 inches, mounted on left side of unit as you are looking at the face. I use 22 AWG solid magnet wire   http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036277&znt_campaign=Category_CMS&znt_source=CAT&znt_medium=RSCOM&znt_content=CT2032227
 but insulated stranded will work just as well. I have some HawkEyes with end of wire hot glued at the top of the the left side unit so the wire hangs down about 16 inches. Other units have wire glued at bottom of unit to point up...both work well. Internally, theantenna of the PMSo2 is located in the upper left corner of unit (looking at the face).

FWIW http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=12013.msg68177

[VTGlcokster]

Yes one apartment is set to A-1 and the other to A-3.  Unfortunately, I am using the wired inputs for alarm sensing, one for the pellet boiler and the other for a moisture sensor.

I assume you have changed the X10 address (p14 of manual) of the apartment motion sensor.

If you are not already using the one wired input, you might consider using a wired occupancy sensor for the apartment. Of course, this depends on how easily you can install the needed wiring.

[VTGlcokster]

When you say mounted does this mean glued or taped to the outside of the casing?

Also, would making the antennae on the transceiver 18" long help?

I'm using a PMS02 motion detector.  Does anyone know which side I would mount the external antennae to and how long it should be?

Yeah, 18 inches, mounted on left side of unit as you are looking at the face. I use 22 AWG solid magnet wire   http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036277&znt_campaign=Category_CMS&znt_source=CAT&znt_medium=RSCOM&znt_content=CT2032227
 but insulated stranded will work just as well. I have some HawkEyes with end of wire hot glued at the top of the the left side unit so the wire hangs down about 16 inches. Other units have wire glued at bottom of unit to point up...both work well. Internally, theantenna of the PMSo2 is located in the upper left corner of unit (looking at the face).

FWIW http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=12013.msg68177

[dhouston]

When you say mounted does this mean glued or taped to the outside of the casing?

Also, would making the antennae on the transceiver 18" long help?

A few years back, I did extensive testing using an RF receiver that output the received signal strength. I tested with motion sensors, Stick-a-Switch and security door/window sensors and security motion sensors and with varying orientations of the passive radiator.

I found no meaningful difference with orientation either relative to the sensor or horizontal/vertical. All of the hair-splitting, voodoo, magical recommendations otherwise are pure speculation. I suspect it merely needs to be within the near-field of the internal antenna. So, mount it anyway that makes sense appearance-wise. Early on, shortly after I first published the web article, a user wrote that he hid it behind dry wall with no ill effect on range.

For the receiver, try 9" and 18".

If there is an FCC ID, it may enable us to find a schematic of the receiver and that might lead to better suggestions for improving/replacing the antenna and/or RF receiver module.

[VTGlcokster]

When I get home tonight I'll look for the FCC ID.

As for the wire can I use a strand from a romex wire and does the wire need to be attached to just the outside case or to circuit board inside the sensor?

Thanks!

When you say mounted does this mean glued or taped to the outside of the casing?

Also, would making the antennae on the transceiver 18" long help?

A few years back, I did extensive testing using an RF receiver that output the received signal strength. I tested with motion sensors, Stick-a-Switch and security door/window sensors and security motion sensors and with varying orientations of the passive radiator.

I found no meaningful difference with orientation either relative to the sensor or horizontal/vertical. All of the hair-splitting recommendations otherwise are pure speculation. I suspect it merely needs to be within the near-field of the internal antenna. So, mount it anyway that makes sense appearance-wise.

For the receiver, try 9" and 18".

If there is an FCC ID, it may enable us to find a schematic of the receiver and that might lead to better suggestions for improving/replacing the antenna and/or RF receiver module.

[dhouston]

As for the wire can I use a strand from a romex wire and does the wire need to be attached to just the outside case or to circuit board inside the sensor?

The type of wire doesn't matter. I used a straightened steel coat hanger.

Keep it outside of the case with no internal connection to the sensor. An internal connection can detune the sensor RF frequency and be counter productive.