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[medic5678]

at this time, you can't readily buy a new one (and the used ones on ebay tend to be pricey, not to mention that you don't know what you're getting).  i bought AHP and the kit i got came with a CM15K.

since i'm running a dedicated security computer 24/77, would it really matter?

i'm going to be running tuicemen's pc companion and want to run ihouse as well.  does ihouse require a cm15a?

as has been posted in other threads, x10 expects to have new cm15A stock in october... but somehow i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it.

so i guess the question is what are the limitations of running a cm15k with a computer vs having a cm15a?

[Brian H]

CM15A: Has an RF Receiver and Transmitter. Has a power line transmitter and receiver. Has memory in it for downloaded timers and macros, that can be run with the PC off. Since it has a power line receiver in it. It can receive X10 power line signals to trigger things. Can do all sixteen House and Unit Codes. 256 X10 addresses

CM15K. CM19A with TM751. CM19A can not receive any power line commands to trigger things. Has no memory to store timers and macros. Needs computer on 24/7 to work. TM751 since it has a House Code Dial can only do one House Code out of sixteen and its sixteen Unit Codes, for a total of 16 X10 addresses. With out adding a second TM751 for an additional House Code. TM751 depending on X10 using the TM751 without internal relay or the TM751C with internal relay in the kit. May or may not be able to control a device plugged into it, with RF commands only.

The CM19A was mentioned in an iHouse post. Looks like it can work but I am sure ITguy will have much better detials.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=27508.msg154218#msg154218

[medic5678]

when you say the cma19 can't receive any "power line commands" i'm not sure what that means...

as far as the tm751 addressing devices, wouldn't it be able to address a maximum of 16?  (one house code x 16 addresses).. so for 32 devices, you'd need 2 tm751's?

i'm really not sure as to how this would ultimately affect it's operation.  let's compare the operation in a simple way to give a better sense of how they would work.  let's say we had 2 motion sensors and a light control.  one motion sensor set as on, and the other motion sensor and the light control  as off.   could the tripping of the first motion sensor initiate a macro which would turn the second motion sensor and the light on?   wouldn't both setups work the same way?  if you could explain in direct terms of device operation using such an example to differentiate between these two (cm15a and cm15k), it would be a lot easier to understand.

as i understand it now, the basic difference (other than the fact that the cm15k needs a computer running) is that you'd need a separate tm751 for each 16 devices.  which means you'd need only one cm15a but one cma19 and two tm751's to control thirty two devices.   otherwise, with either setup you'd be able to do all the same things.

please dumb it down to direct examples using specific devices to demonstrate the differences.... thanks!

[medic5678]

because if i'm going to be running a computer 24/7 anyway (which i am).. and i would stay with less than 48 devices... couldn't i just use my cm15k and pick up a couple of extra tm751's and do pretty much anything i want to do?

all of this is only theory at this point. i've bought a ton of x10 stuff, but it's all in boxes heading this way, none of it here yet .

money isn't an issue for me.  if i have to spend another few hundred dollars, that's fine. 

[Brian H]

The power line commands can't be received by the CM19A as it is RF Transmit and Receive only.
No X10 devices can rebroadcast by RF an X10 power line command to a CM19A.
So if you write a macro triggered by a power line command. A CM15A would see it and the CM19A will not.

Sorry if I was not clear. A single TM751 can do one House Code and all sixteen Units Codes using that House Code. So each one handles 16 addresses.

[medic5678]

it really helps me if we dumb it down to devices.  exactly what would i need a power line command for?  which particular devices?   

give me an exact instance where you would use a power line command? 

also, can the cm15a poll devices to know their state (and give this information to activehome pro), and can macros make decisions based on the states of the devices?  my idea would be to have the computer software poll devices at various intervals to determine states/insure sensors were working, and that commands were responded to appropriately.  for example, a light is turned on by a macro, and then the light is polled to insure that it did in fact turn on.  if not, it would send me an email.

i apologize for being such a newbie, but i don't have any of the equipment here yet, and this is all rather abstract.  i get the feeling that the cm15a is an indispensable piece of equipment and i'm going to have to get my hands on one . 

[Noam]

it really helps me if we dumb it down to devices.  exactly what would i need a power line command for?  which particular devices?   
give me an exact instance where you would use a power line command? 

In this case, we are talking about the computer being able to "hear" other commands on the powerline. For example, if any of your devices are two-way (they transmit their status, or can be polled), this only can work if the computer can hear these transmissions on the powerline. Another example would be a wired controller (like the mini-controller or maxi-controller, or one of the alarm-clock-based ones). those transmit ONLY on the powerline, so the computer needs a powerline receiver to be able to hear them.

also, can the cm15a poll devices to know their state (and give this information to activehome pro), and can macros make decisions based on the states of the devices?  my idea would be to have the computer software poll devices at various intervals to determine states/insure sensors were working, and that commands were responded to appropriately.  for example, a light is turned on by a macro, and then the light is polled to insure that it did in fact turn on.  if not, it would send me an email.

Yes and no. The CM15A *can* poll two-way devices. Unfortunately, there aren't many of those out there. I don't have any "poll-able" devices myself, so I don't know if you can have a conditonal macro use a polled device state as a condition. I have a feeling that is a bit too sophisticated for the software.

i apologize for being such a newbie, but i don't have any of the equipment here yet, and this is all rather abstract.  i get the feeling that the cm15a is an indispensable piece of equipment and i'm going to have to get my hands on one . 

No need to apologize. We were all there at one point in time.

[medic5678]

one of the things i am going to do is connect my skylink wireless alarm system to a powerflash module.  i would need the powerline command for the computer to see this, no?  i just talked to x10 sales, the cm15a will be back in stock for $100 on 10/22/12.   at this point, my automation/security has become a runaway train... so why not get one?

now, if x10 only made the powerflash module.  i'd buy several of those .

[dave w]

give me an exact instance where you would use a power line command?  

Besides Noam's and Brian's answer:
X10 Appliance Modules, Lamp Modules, Receptacle Modules, Socket Rockets, Wall Switch Modules, Universal Module, Power Flash module, (essentially every module you see on the X10 web site that has wires, or plug prongs) all use power line commands for control. They do not communicate via RF like Z-Wave.  

[Brian H]

Yes the Powerflash sends power line commands. So for the computer to see it. A CM15A would be needed.

Right now the X10 PF284 or X10Pro PSC01 Powerflash modules are not available. Some independent X10 dealers say out of stock one says discontinued. Have not seen any posts on it being revived in the future like the CM15A is.

If you need just an X10 On and Off from a dry closure. The Smarthome 2450 I/OLinc can have an X10 Address added to it.
It can not accept a low voltage input or send the cycling X10 commands like a Powerflash can be set to.

[Noam]

give me an exact instance where you would use a power line command?  

Besides Noam's and Brian's answer:
X10 Appliance Modules, Lamp Modules, Receptacle Modules, Socket Rockets, Wall Switch Modules, Universal Module, Power Flash module, (essentially every module you see on the X10 web site that has wires, or plug prongs) all use power line commands for control. They do not communicate via RF like Z-Wave.  

Yes, all of those use Powerline commands, but I think the OP was asking for an example of a case where a powerline command would be sent TO the controller. The PowerFlash is a perfect example.

[medic5678]

noam, precisely.  can you think of another example?

with rolling code and device polling features (come on, how simple is that?), x10 could really make some inroads into capturing a larger market share  unfortunately for them, this would require some engineering and some business acumen.. both in apparent short supply at this company.  i'm sure the company has a lot of very nice folks working there, as people i've dealt with have been awesome.  it is apparent, however, that upper management is basically dumber than a sack of rocks and this is a long standing tradition for them.

[Brian H]

The X10Pro 120 Volt AC Keypad type controllers mounted in an electrical box. Can send power line signals to other modules and could be used by AHP and a CM15A to also trigger things. Not very common but could be done.
Some here are also using Insteon modules with an X10 address added to them. They do send a status change when locally actuated for AHP to know something has changed.

With X10 closing their factory in China and outsourcing some key products. I also would not count on much engineering of new devices or improving existing ones.
 

[beelocks]

Th PR511 floodlight kit also sends powerline signals - if you can get one

[localuser]

now, if x10 only made the powerflash module.  i'd buy several of those .

Use a DS10A door/window sensor instead of a powerflash module and you will be able to determine if a contact is open/close wirelessly.  They are much much cheaper and send a "status" signal every hour or so.

Just remove the magnets and hook the wires directly to your open/close switch.