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[dmq400]

Have had a X10 sys w/3 pad rocker switch with a fourth overall dimmer switch hooked up to 3 livingroom lights....about 10 yrs now.  I always hated the slow response to the light actually going on or off when activating the switch...but have lived with it.  System seems to be slower and slower to react and now the worst thing is that just about every nite at least one and most of the time all 3 go on in the middle of the night.  It even does it without the battery in the switch pad.  The only changes which I can think might be effecting this is periodic new wifi routers, cordless phone sys, or wireless printer installed.   For sure though it did NOT start happening exactly when one of those devices were upgraded/changed.  Bulbs were not suddenly changed, and yes there is the standard "thunk" sound

Is it just time to install a new/smarter sys?      Much thanks!

[Brian H]

You mentioned a battery in the 3 pad rocker style switch. So it is a Stick-A-Switch with no AC power. Sending RF commands to a transceiver. That then sends the X10 power line commands to your other devices.
Do you have a TM751 or RR501 receiving the RF commands from the Stick-A-Switch?
Do you have any phase coupling between the two incoming power lines. Found in most homes?

http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/uncle.htm

[dhouston]

Did your utility company recently install a smartmeter?

[dmq400]

No on the smart meter.  We do have one but it was installed a yr. ago and the power co. says they have not changed anything since it was put in.

Brian - I have no idea what you are talking about (sorry)  and all I can say is that it worked fine for almost 10 yrs, bought the whole sys from one vendor and do have a filtering device (I think) that came with it?    Thanks for some feedback though

[Dan Lawrence]

Do you use X10 in any way?    To use a "Stick-a-Switch" you have to have a TM751 or RR501 receiving the RF commands from the Stick-A-Switch to send powerline signals to lamps.

[dmq400]

Can't we just assume if it was working fine for 10 yrs that I MUST have a TM751 or RR501 as you guys claim?  Do they go bad?  Does it matter which one? (i.e. does
one "go bad" more often then the other?

I'll get the no's tonight.  Thanks

[dhouston]

Can't we just assume if it was working fine for 10 yrs that I MUST have a TM751 or RR501 as you guys claim?  Do they go bad? 

Yes. The thunk you mentioned is most likely is coming from one of them. This may help you understand the problem.

• http://davehouston.org/noise.htm

I would still be suspicious of the smartmeter. Which electric utility? Where are you located?

Are there any motors that operate mostly at night? Baby monitor?

[dmq400]

The "thunk" is coming from the device that is plugged into the outlet (tranciever module MODEL PAT01  X10 Pro N Las Vegas, Nv)
-We are in Vt and it's Green Mountain Power Co.
- No on any special night operating motors and NO on baby monitor

Thanks

[dhouston]

Do you hear the thunk whenever the lights turn on in the middle of the night?

How close are the nearest neighbors?

[dmq400]

Closest neighbor at least 500 ft away....and they are new..ish vacation home people with ongoing semi renovation work.  Pretty far though, no?

Can't tell about the  thunk in the middle of the nite.  Tucked away in an upstairs bedroom with the door closed, window open, under lots of covers  (not my preference, but what one puts up with to keep the marriage in harmony ;-).

Again, thanks for sticking with this for me!

[dhouston]

Unexplained activation is most frequently caused by spikes on the powerline. I've never seen reports of transceivers (TM751, RR501) being vulnerable. Motors, old style magnetic ballasts for fluorescent lights, etc. are frequent culprits. One type of smartmeter (and only in one region around Cincinnati) causes random activations and I suspect its due to the same design flaw in some X10 switches as it puts very high amplitude signals on the powerline which may function in a similar way to spikes. Noisy CFL power supplies have also been blamed for similar events.

You might check to see whether any neighbors who share your distribution transformer use X10.

Brownouts (i.e. momentary power dips) can also cause X10 switches/modules to reset, resulting in unplanned activation.

Things like this are extremely difficult to trackdown without test equipment so any details you can provide on your exact setup such as switch/module, computer controllers, etc. model numbers may be helpful.

[dave w]

dmq400

$0.02
You have the X10 Pro version of the RR501, which is a "polite" transceiver. Meaning, when it gets an RF command to transceive to the homes powerline, it checks the powerline for other X10 commands and transmits to powerline when it is clear. This increasing lag time might be from a noise maker or constant chatter from or your Smart Meter with the PAT01 hesitating for the line to clear up. And as dhouston and Brian points out, Smartmeter communication is known to morph into X10 commands that turn on and off X10 modules. You may (still) have a SmartMeter problem. Like dhouston said, without test equipment (like the XTBM Signal/Noisemeter from JV Digital Engineering) it is difficult to narrow down.

As last ditch effort, you might try changing House Code and moving the PAT01 to different outlets..

[dave w]

One type of smartmeter (and only in one region around Cincinnati) causes random activations

Being a Duke Energy customer, I seem to remember Duke playing with ethernet over powerline in the Cincinnati/eastern Kentucky area a few years back. I wonder if that exacerbated the X10 problem(?).

[dhouston]

Being a Duke Energy customer, I seen to remember Duke playing with ethernet over powerline in the Cincinnati/eastern Kentucky area a few years back. I wonder if that exacerbated the X10 problem(?).

I'm not sure it was Duke who was testing broadband over powerline although some testing was done in the eastern suburbs of Cinicinnati using their infrastructure by a company called Current Communication. I cannot recall seeing any complaints although there were complaints from hams (in other regions). There were several different technologies used by different entities in different regions and some were said to radiate from the powerlines although I do not recall hearing about any smoking gun. The frequencies used are much, much higher so should not cause interference with X10.

• http://cincinnaticomm.com/OurCompany/CompanyProfile/

Duke tested smartmeters starting 5-6 years ago in Fort Mitchell, KY (where I live - about 5 mi south of Cincinnati) before rolling them out to other regions. I have seen no problems. Nearly all of the problems seem to be in the northern suburbs of Cincinnati. I suspect they have implemented the same meters differently there. They have several options for communication.

[dhouston]

...Smartmeter communication is known to morph into X10 commands that turn on and off X10 modules.

Actually, I strongly disagree. I doubt there are many instances where noise somehow is transformed into legitimate X10 commands. I've tested that theory by sending a Smarthome made X10 module to one of the victims who set it to the same address as the affected switch. The Smarthome module was immune. I suggested that another victim buy the Smarthome modules that were on sale at the time and he saw the same thing. So, it would appear to be an X10 design flaw that is at fault. I suspect it is related to the spike vulnerability acknowledged by X10.