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[keepsake]

I have used x10 for decades now.

Here is the problem.  Running a diesel generator I will experience fluctuation in frequency as loads change.  It's a 24 kw genset so it is never overloaded in my house.  I have appliance modules that work fine and never false when on the utility power, then on generator false on repeatedly.  Not sure if it is an error in the decoding but a module will turn on even if no transmission is on the line at all.  It could be a decode or inverted data error or ...  Could it be a false on coming form the module's logic to turn on when the user manually switches the module load on and off.

Anybody with any ideas is welcome, please.  I hate to abandon x10 but this happens with at least 6 modules now, that work fine on utility grid electric.

p.s. I have some x10 filters already and have a 100% operational household, but only on grid power.

[Brian H]

Noise spikes have been known to trigger some X10 modules On.
Sounds like yours are old enough to not be the latest CFL friendly model Appliance Modules.

Do you know if the generator has a pure sinewave or modified sinewave output?

What type loads are on the Appliance Modules?

[keepsake]

I have a 24 volt transformer on one appliance module.  It powers an irrigation valve that will fill the pool with water.

Another is a simple portable radio.

Another is the chime/relay contacts for low-voltage x10.

Remember they work fine on utility electric.

The genset does have a bad habit of hiccup'ing and revving back up to speed.  Nevertheless I can hear the generator running smoothly and still observe a module click on for no reason.

This is an 1800 rpm 24kw 4 cylinder diesel genset, with no electronics at all on its output.  Just traditional windings going through a dual 100 amp breaker.

Does anybody here know what I mean about the local manual turn on logic incorporated into most of these modules?  Since all my falses are 'ON' logic, this is of concern to me.  From what I recall, I can climb inside the module and clip out a resistor to stop this feature.

[Brian H]

http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm

In the Appliance Module Modification Section.
There are two shown. The diode in the older ones and the jumper for the later ones that are not CFL friendly.
I have cut the diode and jumper in some of the modules I have. The jumper stoped the triggering On and the diode the actual small current into the load.

The CFL friendly ones are 100% different from those shown in the modifications shown on the above link. They don't have Local Control Sensing but noise can still occasionally trigger them.

Local Control Sensing is triggered by switching the loads local switch On and Off not the AC line side. Though I would try it anyway. As we see strange things here that we would not think would be happening.

[dave w]

Momentary dips, brown outs, and loss of power with a "dirty" restore (power comes back up slowly and flickers) can false Appliance Modules and Lamp Modules ON, and also Lamp Modules OFF. I have never seen an Appliance false to OFF on a dip. You would probably need an oscilloscope to see if and how much your line voltage was dipping when the refrigerator, washer, or A/C came on. Most of my falsing to ON problems are with older modules. I have older Appliance Modules where I have disabled the "Local Control" and as I recall it made no difference in the falsing to ON problems. $0.02

[keepsake]

I am reading today about the PAM01 appliance module ...

"This incredible Plug-in Appliance Module features Automatic Gain Control (AGC) which allows the unit to operate in adverse conditions thanks to an advanced powerline circuit design. Perfect for installations in which operational reliability is crucial, the AGC Appliance Module offers a higher degree of sensitivity and unbeatable noise rejection."

Wondering -- can anyone post their results with this newer pom01 version of the am486 appl module.

Thanks in advance.  Any comparison charts, tables or test results would be great !

[dave w]

They are identical excepting model number and the "X10 Pro" name. AM486/466 has had AGC for several years. At one time the "X10 Pro" modules (PAM01/02) were supposed to have a burn in and more thorough testing. I doubt that is still true.

[keepsake]

So in your estimation there is no way to get any x10 or x10 compatible device to not-false with fluctuation in line frequency.  I would be fine if they just ignored codes and didn't respond at all.  But false-on is catastrophic.

Does anybody else make a reliable x10-code receiver module?

[dave w]

So in your estimation there is no way to get any x10 or x10 compatible device to not-false with fluctuation in line frequency.  I would be fine if they just ignored codes and didn't respond at all.  But false-on is catastrophic.

Does anybody else make a reliable x10-code receiver module?

Well, your modules work fine on utility power but false on under your generator power. I have used X10 modules in a motorhome with a 7.5kW Onan generator with no problems. So to me, it appears to be a problem with your generator under changing loads.

You could try a X10 compatable Smarthome brand Appliance Module: http://www.smarthome.com/2456S3/ApplianceLinc-Relay-INSTEON-Plug-in-Appliance-Control-Module-3-pin/p.aspx   OR to give up on PLC control and go to a completely RF form of control like Z-Wave.

[dhouston]

X10 uses a capacitive transformerless power supply. These cannot supply much current. X10 tends to also stint on storage capacitors so the power supply cannot handle a dip of even a short duration. They also use a PIC microcontroller which has a rather sensitive brown-out detector which causes a reset if the supply voltage dips below a certain level. Upon the PIC reset, the X10 module turns on. This is the likely cause of your problem.

Smarthome modules seem to better handle things like this. There's one region of the country where Duke Power's implementation of Echelon Smartmeters causes frequent random X10 on events. I loaned some Smarthome modules to users who were experiencing this and the Smarthome modules, even when set to the same address as the offending switches, did not exhibit random on events. IOW, davew is probably giving you good advice.

[Brian H]

The 2456S3 davew linked to. May work. They have a memory in them to remember if they where On or Off when power was lost. Even if the power dipped low enough to reset them. It should remember if it was On or Off.

The Hardware Revision 4.15 and 4.2 always reverted to Off at power up even if they where On at power loss.
Later and earlier revisions reverted to known state when power was lost.

I was using the older Smarthome 2000 Series X10 PLC's and I don't remember them turning On with power dips either.

[keepsake]

Saw this feedback ...

STEVE -- SANTA MONICA, CA    Date: 5/23/2013
Review: I ordered this appliance module after downloading instructions from the Smarthome website showing that the device would work with X10 controllers. It didn't - when I called tech support they told me my X10 controller was "too old" and I should buy their newer one. ...

I have a serial port connected to the CM11A x10 transmitter.  How do I know if this Insteon module will work with those x10 codes?  I am not a trial and error type person -- i ask up front.

[dave w]

Saw this feedback ...

STEVE -- SANTA MONICA, CA    Date: 5/23/2013
Review: I ordered this appliance module after downloading instructions from the Smarthome website showing that the device would work with X10 controllers. It didn't - when I called tech support they told me my X10 controller was "too old" and I should buy their newer one. ...

I have a serial port connected to the CM11A x10 transmitter.  How do I know if this Insteon module will work with those x10 codes?  I am not a trial and error type person -- i ask up front.

Gee, then you should asking Smarthome.

The URL description clearly states it accepts a X10 address.  Here is the instructions: http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2456S.pdf
X10, is X10. The basic house code - unit code address and command protocol today, is the same as 1978.

[Brian H]

It comes with no Primary X10 Address in it. You have to program one into it.
All of my 2456S3 ApplianceLincs and 2476S SwitchLinc have an X10 address in them.
I can control them with my CM15A through AHP. Also with a HR12A Palm Pad with an RR501 transceiver.

The only difference is they are two way. You can send a Status request to its X10 address and it will send back its status.

[Brian H]

I am not sure if Steve in the review typed in the wrong controller number.
I have a Smarthome 1132CU using their Smarthome Essentials Software. It has no problems controlling my 2456S3 ApplianceLinc modules. With their Primary X10 Addresses.

I thought of one added thing. Since they are a two way device. The X10 transmitter in them may absorb some power line signals. If your power line signals are marginal. In theory they may be flaky or not work.

I tested one of mine with a CM11A and Active Home Software. It controlled the ApplianceLinc just fine.