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[Carlos_F]

Hello, I'm hoping to get some needed advice.

I'm trying to increase the RF range for my X10 devices and not really comfortable modifying the TM751 so I'm looking into products from WGL, either the V572RF32 transceiver or W800+ receiver.  I'm running HomeSeer 24/7 on a system in my basement so if I go with the computer based W800+, I'd need to relocate the antenna with either a longer coax run or try serial thru a shielded cat5 or 6.  I wouldn't face this problem with the power line connected v572 but I'd be making a trade off with slower response time.  Since it's the easiest fix, would a longer cable run of about 50' for the antenna hurt the signal quality?

The other question I have is the required power line interface for the v572.  The WGL site states it's a Transceiver and requires "...XTB523, PSC05, TW523 or 1132b Powerlink X10 power line interface..." but I don't understand why it needs a 2 way interface since I thought it's a send only device.  The PSC5 2-way interface is more expensive and harder to find than the one way PSC04 transmitter.  So do I need a 2 way power line interface for the v572?

Maybe I'm missing something here, I don't know.  I'd like to stay on x10 and have found with a clean, properly conditioned power line, it can be reliable for my non safety uses so I've never upgraded to a newer technology.  I recently moved and trying to get this system set up here.  My old house was a 3 story home so I handled the RF with multiple TM751 and RR501 on different house codes, using HomeSeer to sort it out.  This home is a long bungalow and I'd like to get away from all that.

Any advice on where to go would really be appreciated.

[Brian H]

Transceiver maybe a poor choice of words.
It is a two way power line interface. It sends and receives X10 power line commands for the V572 to use.
The four pin signal connections are different between the transmit only PL513/PSC04 and the two way model TW523/PSC05. So trying to use the transmit only model will not work. With the V752 that is wired for the two way style interface connections.

[dhouston]

If you use a low-loss 50-ohm coax for the antenna, it's unlikely that you'll lose much range. Adding a wideband preamp (preferably at the antenna) might increase the range even more provided it doesn't overwhelm the receiver.

• http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/2248.html 

The only wiring difference between the transmit only and transmit/receive devices is that pin 3 is ground on the transmit only device while it is the output (from the powerline) of the transmit/receive device. I suspect either will work with WGL but this is a question best put to WGL.

[Carlos_F]

Thanks for the information and took the advice of inquiring with WGL.  It requires a 2 way since it first checks for traffic before transmitting, I should have thought of that   
The good news is they say either models antenna coax can be up to 100' without amplification.

[Brian H]

Thank you for the information on needing the two way interface and it is polite. Checking for power line traffic before sending.

[dhouston]

Thanks for the information and took the advice of inquiring with WGL.  It requires a 2 way since it first checks for traffic before transmitting, I should have thought of that  

Sorry, but none of the applicable interfaces are polite. All delay reporting powerline activity for one full copy of the code. And, while sending the second copy of the code, these interfaces are examining the delayed copy of the first code to check for collisions. Most collisions will have occurred about 1/4 second before these interfaces are made aware of them. Finally, these interfaces examine the first code copy and only output it (on a delayed basis) if it is a valid X10 code. The odds of avoiding any collision are near zero.

[JeffVolp]

Sorry, but none of the applicable interfaces are polite. All delay reporting powerline activity for one full copy of the code. And, while sending the second copy of the code, these interfaces are examining the delayed copy of the first code to check for collisions. Most collisions will have occurred about 1/4 second before these interfaces are made aware of them. Finally, these interfaces examine the first code copy and only output it (on a delayed basis) if it is a valid X10 code. The odds of avoiding any collision are near zero.

The XTB-IIR does include a mode option to output every bit as it is received over the powerline.  That isn't the default mode to remain compatible with the TW523/PSC05.  And I found that some devices are expecting the echo to be delayed.  From the XTB-IIR Mode Options document:

Return All Bits:  This option converts all X10 signal bursts received over the powerline to half-cycle long digital pulses without any error checking.  In version 1.2+, the output is in sync with the input, but delayed about .3mS from the 60Hz zero crossing to determine the level.  This option may be useful for diagnostics or for an enhanced automation controller that does its own error checking.  However, since no error checking is performed, noise bursts can cause erroneous “1” bits, and this option should be left off unless needed.

The XTB-IIR also includes a polite mode option itself that immediately aborts a transmission if it sees a "1" in a time slot where it is transmitting a "0".  But by that point the command could already have been corrupted.

Jeff

[dhouston]

The XTB-IIR also includes a polite mode option itself that immediately aborts a transmission if it sees a "1" in a time slot where it is transmitting a "0".  But by that point the command could already have been corrupted.

While not applicable here, the CM11A and CM15A (reacting in real-time) also abort upon seeing a '1' when sending a '0'. And, while the code may already be corrupted, one copy is likely to be unaffected. After aborting, the CM11A and CM15A wait for 8-10 clear bit periods before trying again. While all the X10 documentation is now offline, I had quoted the relevant paragraph on my webpage.

When a transmitter has a message it wishes to transmit, it must wait for access to the power line for either 8, 9, or 10 half power line cycles - during which the line must have been continuously clear of data '1' bits. If a '1' bit is detected, it must restart its access timing and wait for another 8, 9, or 10 cycles. After line access has been achieved, the transmitter must check the line during the transmission of a '0' bit (no carrier) to see that no other transmitter is transmitting. If a collision occurs, the transmitter must abort its transmission immediately and again go though the line access procedure. The choice of 8, 9, or 10 half cycles is chosen randomly for each line access attempt.

While one scope screenshot is missing, this page explains how the TW523 and similar X10 devices work.

• http://davehouston.org/tw523.htm

For the OP, the WGL error checking is a wasted effort. You might ask them whether their device will work with a one-way device instead of wasting money on a feature that does nothing useful.

Also, IIRC, the Smarthome 1132B did report in real-time but, as it has long been discontinued, it doesn't matter much for this thread. I believe it could be used to report all bits on the powerline.

• http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/1132b_web.pdf

Note: PowerLinc II does not have any built-in intelligence; you must use a
program running on the computer to make the home automation decisions.

[Brian H]

It depends on how the V752 is wired.
The PL513 has pin 2 as common for the Zero Crossing detector only and pin 3 as the common for the transmitter keying only. 2 and 3 are not tied together in the PL513.
The TW523 uses common pin 2 for all the signals. If the V752 is expecting receive data on pin 3. There good chance the power line transmitter will never work as it expected the common for all signals to be on pin 2.