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Author Topic: Need a isolated wall switch  (Read 4428 times)

liderbug

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Need a isolated wall switch
« on: March 07, 2015, 01:59:39 PM »
Searching for  Isolated and I get pages of "signal" isolation.  Not what I'm after.  
I found this LED light 10W http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JB12M50/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Turns on like a perm. Press25 bulb.  Great, first one goes outside the kitchen door on the X10 switch - part of motion over garage door etc.

So I disconnect old light and start wiring my new light in - strobe .. strobe .. strobe .. @@$!*&^%$@%$#  B:(
First thought - small relay off X10 switch - then I thought "Ask the forum..."  Do any X10 wall switches use contacts and not mosfets (or whatever they use in place of contacts)?  If I need a standalone relay (RadioShack?) any recomentations?

Thanks loads
cal
 
Would I need a  WS13A ?

« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 02:27:51 PM by liderbug »
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dave w

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 05:32:55 PM »
FWIW
The WS13A uses a relay and needs a neutral line in the wall box. X10 2-wire dimmer switches use triacs and draw "parasitic" power through the incandesent bulb filament to power the internal electronics of the switch. This can cause CFLs and LEDs to pulse. The WS13A will likely not cause this since it requires a neutral line, eliminating the need of power through the filament.
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Brian H

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 06:36:53 PM »
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liderbug

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2015, 03:19:32 PM »
OK, my WS13A showed up today.  I wired it as a single pole, with line & neutral to switch and load to my light. Switch ON AAAAAAAAAAAA!!! I confess I confess.  Switch OFF .... blink ..... blink ... blink

 B:(

Suggestions?
Thanks

PS What is "Control"?

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Brian H

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2015, 03:43:42 PM »
Control is used when you have a three way or more setup and is not used in a single switch setup.
A WS14A or XPSS is used to trigger the control input on the WS13A. To turn it On and Off.

Did I read correctly? On is OK but Off the LED fixture flashes?

There is a very small Relay On Off Sensor circuit in the WS13A. So it knows if it is On or Off before blindly toggling the internal ratchet switch.
I measured about .3 mA on one of my test units. A real small LED nightlight would glow faintly. I don't think the LED fixture you linked to would blink on that low a current but maybe.
You have verified the Line Neutral and Load wires are correct.
The original setup was not a three way was it or feeds a motion sensor?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 04:24:46 PM by Brian H »
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liderbug

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2015, 04:48:39 PM »
You read correctly. On =  ____---------------------->  Off = _____-____________-___________-  and the - is more like |

The orig was a WS12A -> an incandescent.  (active eye ->RasPi(w SW) turn garage floods on, turn this deck light on...  Just a single switch.  And I'm going to say your .3mA seems to be enough.  I starting to think RS for a 1.98 relay...
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Brian H

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2015, 06:19:04 PM »
If the WS13A is physically ratcheting On and Off.
The fixture maybe triggering it to go on and off with noise.

A RS relay may work fine. Though with RS Bankrupt and closing most stores. You may have to find one still open. Though I have seen reports of closing ones having up to 90% off to dump the stock.
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Knightrider

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2015, 07:43:15 PM »
Swamping resistor
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Brian H

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2015, 06:24:43 AM »
If it is the On/Off sensing current. A swamping resistor should work. I know a 33K 3 Watt has been used. 1 watt is OK as at 120 volts it is around .5 W when On.

If it is noise from the fixtures electronics sneaking back through the On/Off sensor it may not work but is an easy try before added relays.
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liderbug

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2015, 03:07:41 PM »
> If it is the On/Off sensing current. A swamping resistor should work. I know a 33K 3 Watt has been used. 1 watt is OK as at 120 volts it is around .5 When On.

I've never "swamped"'ed'ed... - instructions please...

> If it is noise from the fixtures electronics sneaking back through the On/Off sensor it may not work but is an easy try before added relays.

Question:  Could I open the switch up and snip a line to elim. the .3ma?

All this help - I'm go'na owe a beeer.

PS My internet has been down for the past 8 hrs - "Oh, so sorry for your problems.  Are all the wires plugged in? ..." <sigh>


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Brian H

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2015, 06:09:25 PM »
No if you disable the On/Off sensing circuit. It will not know if it is On or Off. So every X10 command it receives. It will try three times to change to the proper setting. Then stop. Basically it will sound like a short machine gun burst.

Connect the resistor from Load to Neutral on the switch or directly across the fixtures power input wires.


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dave w

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2015, 08:10:10 PM »
FWIW I used the 33K on an appliance module controlled ceiling fan that would turn back on after being turned off. I used 3 watt resistors and they barely got warm with the fan running. Oddly the 3 watt capacity was easier to find. (eBay) 
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IPS

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2015, 06:11:26 AM »
I use lots of LEDs and CFLs with different X10 modules. Also use many LED XMAS strings. All for one to two years now. I too ran into similar problems. So my solution was to leave atlest one incandence bulb in the circuit. I suppose that is like putting a resistor across the load.
I use SW13A, LM15A, lamp modules and 3pin appliance modules and all work fine with LEDs and CFLs and these are old modules bought few years back.
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liderbug

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2015, 07:58:02 AM »
Went to RS - no 1w 33k - so 3 100k 1/2w ... and ...  >!

Thanks for all the help.  Av one on me.

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Brian H

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Re: Need a isolated wall switch
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2015, 09:22:18 AM »
OK. Let us know the results.
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