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[Bob.M]

OK it is a Radio Shack 61-2685 which I have had since 1988. It has worked fine with a 3.4 hp motor, but lately it has gotten unreliable turning off. I have a second 61-2685 attached to a spotlight. It has recently started acting the same way. Both check out OK on the bench, but if installed, they greet the off request with silence.
Is this the typical method of failure?  It is as if the contacts weld themselves together.

I have already ordered a PSC01, hopefully a little bit of "new" might help.

Correction. I ordered a PA011

[joe s.]

If I were troubleshooting, I would suspect noise in the X10 band has been "added" to your home from plugging in something new (or some device degrading badly).  The odds that both modules failed in the same way at the same time is pretty remote.  Not that new hardware is bad idea after so many years.  But be prepared that the new hardware might have exactly the same issue.  As for troubleshooting for noise on your A/C circuits - there are some great hints here:  http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm

[JeffVolp]

Actually, I ran into the same problem today on the outlet that controls our garage ventilation fan.  That outlet has been cycling daily during the summer for over a decade, but today the fan never turned off.  Commands are fine, and there is no noise.  Spinning the switches on the outlet didn't help.  Even plugging a Maxi Controller into that outlet (which is on) didn't work.  Since the is no clicking in response to a command, I suspect it isn't that broken plastic piece.  I'll have to pull it tomorrow to see what happened.

Jeff

[Brian H]

Besides new power line noise makers or signal suckers.
They are fairly old and the electronics maybe deteriorating or the mechanical parts wearing out.
The plastic actuator is a known issue as Jeff pointed out. Get brittle and snap or jam up.

[dave w]

Both check out OK on the bench, but if installed, they greet the off request with silence.
It is as if the contacts weld themselves together.

If they click ON and click OFF when on the bench but do not respond to off when installed then I agree with Joe it is probably a new  electrical noise source.

But first, are you using the same controller when bench testing as you are using when they are installed? If not maybe a bad "OFF" button on one controller.

Are both outlets on the same circuit branch? Do you know if the outlets and the controller are on the same phase?

Referring to possible noise; What new electronic do-dad have you plugged in recently?

[Bob.M]

...

But first, are you using the same controller when bench testing as you are using when they are installed? If not maybe a bad "OFF" button on one controller.

Are both outlets on the same circuit branch? Do you know if the outlets and the controller are on the same phase?

Referring to possible noise; What new electronic do-dad have you plugged in recently?

I have been using several controllers. The outlets are are on the same circuit, but when testing, they both work OK when the controller is on either circuit. The one controlling the 3/4 hp pool pump motor has been running on the same timer/controller for decades. It is a Radio Shack Remote Controller Timer 61-2670.
I don't recall any new gadgets, but maybe if I think about it for a while, I might come up with something.
It still works once in a while, but it cannot be trusted.

[Bob.M]

With the pool pump unplugged at the X-10 outlet, it clicks on/off 100% even from a controller on a different circuit/side. Same results with a 275 watt light bulb plugged into it.
I need to do some testing with the pump motor unplugged outside. There is about a 60 foot wire from the indoor outlet to the motor.
The only new gadgets I can think of are a DVR Digital Video Recorder and a power line monitor alarm.

I have some spare appliance modules around, but they are not rated for the 3/4 hp motor load. I will be looking for a 110vac relay for use between the outlet and the motor. X-10 doesn't make plain relays, does it?

[Brian H]

No but you should be able to find a heavy duty AC contractor and maybe put it into a weather prof case.
Elk makes a 60 amp assembly with a 120 volt AC coil that is made to be controlled by a appliance type module. Like an X10 one or Insteon ApplianceLinc.
http://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/elk-9200-heavy-duty-relay-contactor

[JeffVolp]

Here is a update on my X10 outlet that stopped responding.  It was actually a Leviton 6280, which is the version with the pass-through to control other outlets downstream.

I checked it again today in the garage, and there was no response – no click, nothing.  So I swapped it out with a replacement, and got the click … click in response to ON … OFF.  Great, problem solved!

Then I opened the old 6280 up on the bench to see what was wrong.  There was no evidence of any damage.  Nothing was burnt, and no electrolytic was expanded or leaking.  So I connected up power, and was surprised to find it responded perfectly to commands again.

I don't have a clue why it was dead in the garage.  Maybe its controller was locked up and it just needed a power cycle?  Maybe the physical stress that occurred during removal and opening the case corrected an intermittent?  I had spun the code wheels, so it wasn't an intermittent there.  Since it appears to be fine now, I'll save it as a spare for the one that controls the outlets in our media room.

Jeff

[Bob.M]

No but you should be able to find a heavy duty AC contractor and maybe put it into a weather prof case.
Elk makes a 60 amp assembly with a 120 volt AC coil that is made to be controlled by a appliance type module. Like an X10 one or Insteon ApplianceLinc.
http://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/elk-9200-heavy-duty-relay-contactor

Thanks. I will look into it. It don't need to be weatherproof, as the X-10 wall outlet is in the basement.

A bit more information: It stopped raining long enough for me to go out and throw the switch off at the motor.
With no load on the contacts, but the 60+ foot wire attached, all controllers operate OK.
I tried using a mini controller plugged into the spare unswitched outlet on the wall outlet, while the motor was attached.
It worked! Only tried it once, but what I may do is buy a second remote controller (timer).

Just a bit of info for bench testing, I used a very light load, a Neon light to indicate if the switch was on or off. It gave very misleading results. It basically looks like it is on all the time. I measured the voltage coming out of the wall outlet, and it is 120vac whether it is on or off. Now I am using an incandescent bulb which clearly shows whether it is on or off.

[dave w]

Then I opened the old 6280 up on the bench to see what was wrong.  There was no evidence of any damage.  Nothing was burnt, and no electrolytic was expanded or leaking.  So I connected up power, and was surprised to find it responded perfectly to commands again.

I don't have a clue why it was dead in the garage. 

I have had same experience. Wish I knew what got it working again. But I still have a small milk crate full of modules that the mojo hasn't worked on.

[Brian H]

The outlet has a small sensing current on the outlet.
To determine if it is On or Off.
Small loads like a neon tester or high impedance meter. Will falsely read this as about 120 volts.

[JeffVolp]

Small loads like a neon tester or high impedance meter. Will falsely read this as about 120 volts.

In my case it was stuck on running the vent fan.  That wasn't the sensing current.

Jeff

[Noam]

Small loads like a neon tester or high impedance meter. Will falsely read this as about 120 volts.

In my case it was stuck on running the vent fan.  That wasn't the sensing current.

Jeff

I've never opened one of those up, but could the relay have been physically jammed, and opening it up un-jammed it?

[JeffVolp]

In my case it was stuck on running the vent fan.  That wasn't the sensing current.

I've never opened one of those up, but could the relay have been physically jammed, and opening it up un-jammed it?

While that may be possible, the relay is underneath the PCB, and I never opened it up to that level.  Of course just removing it from the electrical box and placing it onto the bench may have been enough.

Jeff