MS16A new old stock sensitivity

[spam4us]

I have a few MS16As that are about 12 years old. Still in the box. Never been used. I installed new batteries but the motion sensitivity doesn't seem as good as they were when new.  I am using them outside in the same locations where I had other MS16As that I am replacing. They are set to report motion all the time.

The new old stock ones do not seem to pic up motion (led doesn't blink) when I walk by or across the field of view. Sometimes I have to be about 3 feet from them before I see the led blink. I have also looked at the AHP activity monitor and nothing has been reported. When the MS16A does pick up motion(blinks), it reports to AHP all the time.
I have tried mounting them at different heights and angles with no improvement.

So I have 3 questions.
1. Do the MS16As deteriorate with age where they would become less sensitive to motion? I am do not have much electronics knowledge. (bad sensor, capacitor, etc)
2. If I purchase new ones from X10 will they be a fresh production run or will I be getting new old stock?
3. Any recommendations for other outdoor battery operated motion sensors. (Z-wave, ZigBee) I know they are not compatible but with the right software/hardware, I can make them work with the x10 light modules.

Thanks

[toasterking]

I have always found the range of the MS16A and other (non-security) X10 RF PIR motion sensors to be abysmal.  For me, they don't seem to degrade with age; they've always sucked.  When anything but very close range is required, I now replace the PIR sensor in them with a SBG446-671, which is a drop-in replacement that has a somewhat wider and longer range.  (This requires very basic soldering -- 3 through-hole pins.)  I realize that this is probably not the kind of answer you are looking for, but I thought I would share anyway.

[bkenobi]

X10 has always changed components inside modules and, in some cases, changed the boards significantly without changing part numbers.  I don't understand this practice, but that's kind of their thing.  I can't say that a module would degrade over time as I'm not a hardware designer, but I can say that over time, some components do deteriorate.  For instance, many capacitors degrade with or without use to the point where they can destroy the device.  I don't know if that could happen with these modules but it's something to consider.

That said, I agree with toasterking that these motion sensors are terrible.  I have used a number over the years and have concluded they are not worth the effort.  The range is terrible even after adding a passive antenna.  They die without any warning (many devices send a battery low indication, these just stop transmitting).  When they die, it's usually around when the batter has already been leaking for a few weeks or longer so the module is already damaged.  And they are for "indoor/outdoor use" which means they should be able to survive basic use outdoor instead of having to be sealed for even occasional light rain and even then fail because the components can't be exposed to UV without cracking.

Some X10 is pretty good.  MS16A is not one of them IMO.

[Tuicemen]

I  agree with others the ms16a sensor is not worth the head ache. I moved to the security motion sensors for inside and element protected areas years ago. Now if I want alerts I use my Ip cameras sensors provides a picture as well. I've not use other protocol battery sensors.

[spam4us]

Everyone,  Thanks for the replies. I will be giving up the ms16As. I will still go with a battery option mainly because I do not have any junction boxes that are within ground reach. My ladder days are over. My flood lights are about 14 feet off the ground.  I'll be looking for something that can mount between the ground and 6-7 feet.

Toasterking. I followed your link for the pir sensor. I took apart one of my MS16a's. It doesn't appear too difficult but I'd rather get something that's new instead of modifying the MS16A. I appreciate your thoughts.

bkenobi. THe MS16A is not waterproof. I've had a couple that had water intrusion. Also, the Fresnel lens on them do not do well. They become brittle and crack.

Tuicemen. You're right. The MS16a is a headache to set up and not worth the trouble. There just doesn't seem to be that many that are wireless made for outdoors.

One that might be interesting is the Phillips Hue outdoor wireless.

Thanks to all for your help.

[JeffVolp]

X10 has always changed components inside modules and, in some cases, changed the boards significantly without changing part numbers.

It is not just their "thing".  I began running into component availability issues soon after introducing the XTB line of products.  Usually a substitute was available that would fit into the same footprint, but in a couple of instances the PCB had to be revised.  And many of you know there have been firmware updates to improve performance and address issues that cropped up in certain installations.  The product names remained the same but several improved as they matured - most notably the major upgrade to the XTB-IIR in 2013:  https://jvde.us/firmware-updates/

Jeff

[Brian H]

X10WTI had a reputation of doing major changes and keeping the exact same model number.
The LM465 and appliance modules are two of them.
New Soft Start and older LM465. Older Appliance and more CFL friendly are another.
The Universal Module also has a new quiet output relay and not the large clunk of a  slide switch.

[Moose]

My 2 cents, yes these sensors can be a pain. But, has anyone stumbled upon a Wifi, Zigbee or Zwave motion device solution that can then interface with X10 devices???

[petera]

Three different technologies. Three different solutions. Maybe the question you need to ask is how can you bring all these technologies to one platform. That’s an easier question to answer. As I mentioned before decide what route you want to go before buying bits to shore up your setup otherwise you’re throwing good money after bad.

[Moose]

Maybe the question you need to ask is how can you bring all these technologies to one platform.

That is what I am asking. I am willing to try and connect any of them to X10 to replace the MS16a's. To late to worry about the money I have spent. I am no longer looking for a cheap solution. I would just like one that works. So, if you have solutions using all 3 approaches, I would like to hear them. I might even try them all. After your comments, I have even played with Homeseer a little.

[brobin]

Maybe you could use one of these Broadlink Motion Sensors to trigger an Alexa routine that sends commands to your P2 to turn on X10 lights.
https://amzn.to/3CZwdyH