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Author Topic: X10 Works on all circuits but one  (Read 534 times)

Tipiford

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X10 Works on all circuits but one
« on: June 28, 2024, 05:51:54 PM »

In 45 plus years of using/selling X10, I've never encountered a situation where a module worked on every circuit (relevant circuits in the home) but one. We had an X10 appliance module connected to and outdoor circuit feeding a water fountain pump, which has been working for the entire age of our home with 0 issues (9-years). Now, all of a sudden, it has stopped. After troubleshooting we have found that this module (several units proven) works on several circuits where tried but one. So, the module being perfectly workable, what would inhibit its working on all other circuits but this one?
   
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Brian H

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2024, 06:37:12 PM »

Changes in the home. New or moved electronics. Existing electronics deteriorating .
X10 power line signals can be masked by line noise makers, devices that absorb the signals aka signal suckers, phase coupling changes.
Example. I have a LED TV in the kitchen. It absorbs X10 power line signals. I have to have it on an XPPF filter to reduce the signal absorption.

Jeff at JV Digital Engineering has a great set of troubleshooting tutorials.

https://jvde.us/x10-troubleshooting/

The cell phone charger was specially interesting.

Since it is one circuit. You may want to unplug [Off is not always a good check as supplies stay in standby] other devices on that circuit and see if it helps.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2024, 06:40:13 PM by Brian H »
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Tipiford

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2024, 07:31:57 PM »

:Changes in the home. New or moved electronics. Existing electronics deteriorating .
X10 power line signals can be masked by line noise makers, devices that absorb the signals aka signal suckers, phase coupling changes."

We'll troubleshoot this on the basis that the only 2 devices that are suspect have changed, as there have been no physical changes on this circuit with the two devices, or other (a small fan and iPhone charger).

Thanx

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brobin

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2024, 09:20:36 PM »

Phone chargers and other wall warts can work fine for years and then, still working, start flooding the line with noise.  This happened to me with a Tivo Mini wall wart. All of sudden nothing on that circuit would work. Unplugged the 8 year old wall wart and all was well.
Also happened when I replaced an incandescent bulb with an LED bulb.  Would turn on but not off b/c once the LED was on it threw off noise. An in-line hash choke fixed that one. 
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Brian H

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2024, 06:53:18 AM »

Years ago we didn't have all these electronic goodies to generate X10 problem.  That we now have. I am not surprised your earlier X10 use was in many ways not so problem sum.

The two on the same circuit is good start.
Since you have a signal issue. It can be any device in the house is noisy or sucking up the signals. Effecting the signals on the troubled modules location.

Do you have an X10 coupler or repeater in the home to couple the signals between the incoming phases of power?
A quick check maybe turning on a oven if electric and seeing if things changed.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2024, 07:03:23 AM by Brian H »
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Tuicemen

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2024, 07:10:59 AM »

Since you have isolated the circuit which the module doesn't  work. Test to see if the module works in other outlets on the same circuit. I suspect a outlet closer to the distribution panel will work. I once had an incandescent light bulb that would though noise on to the line so nothing after it down line would work. This light worked find prior to generating the noise.  >!
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Tipiford

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2024, 02:04:43 PM »

Do you have an X10 coupler or repeater in the home to couple the signals between the incoming phases of power?
Yes. we do, and a device inhibiting neighborly interference on our shared transformer (don't recall name of or part#).
Hopefully I can do some testing when the sun's sharp rays recede late this afternoon (this circuit is in our garage--no problem there, our back porch--a problem there, and outside--another problem area, including mosquitoes).
Thanx
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Tipiford

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2024, 02:07:27 PM »

Since you have isolated the circuit which the module doesn't  work. Test to see if the module works in other outlets on the same circuit. I suspect a outlet closer to the distribution panel will work. I once had an incandescent light bulb that would though noise on to the line so nothing after it down line would work. This light worked find prior to generating the noise.  >!
Of course, I will try that, hopefully later today when I can brave the elements.
Thanx
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Tipiford

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2024, 05:43:15 PM »

Braving the elements, not waiting for the blistering sun to go away, I went ahead and 'gotter done.' I have tested all the receptacles on this circuit and, further, just as a 'final insuring measure,' turned off all breakers but the one involved--still no joy. I'm now at a loss as to what is on this once-before-working circuit that causes this interference with nothing else connected.
(Could it be this circuit is feeding an area of the house I'm not aware of? I don't think so, but just to be proof positive I will turn off all breakers but one--when my precious wife is missing from the home--and go through the house with a fine tooth comb, and my tester, and confirm this circuit extends only to the garage, back porch, and outside junction box.)
Any other ideas?

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brobin

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2024, 07:54:01 PM »

Can you list all the loads connected to that circuit (not just the X10 controlled ones).
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Tipiford

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2024, 09:51:41 PM »

Can you list all the loads connected to that circuit (not just the X10 controlled ones).
After turning off all breakers but the one in question and the circuit with the CM15a, the module works anywhere on the circuit. I turned back on half the breakers at a time until I found not one, but two circuits causing the issue; now I need to eliminate the culprits, but how to do that, I'm at a loss, One has gfi duplexes, which I can switch out, but the other circuit is our dishwasher, food waste disposer and touch faucet. So, don't know what to do with that.
Thanx
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brobin

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2024, 10:36:22 PM »

The touch faucet may have a wall wart that you can unplug. I doubt the disposer or dishwasher are the culprits since they're usually off. Unplug everything from the GFCI's for testing.  Any LED bulbs on either circuit?
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Brian H

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2024, 07:17:18 AM »

If the dishwasher has electronic controls.
It may have a standby power supply that is always powered and it could have a nice fat capacitor across its input to kill internal noise. X10 also.
The touch faucet could also as you pointed out.
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Tipiford

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2024, 05:18:41 PM »

The touch faucet may have a wall wart that you can unplug. I doubt the disposer or dishwasher are the culprits since they're usually off. Unplug everything from the GFCI's for testing.  Any LED bulbs on either circuit?
The touch faucet may have a wall wart that you can unplug. I doubt the disposer or dishwasher are the culprits since they're usually off. Unplug everything from the GFCI's for testing.  Any LED bulbs on either circuit?

Oops! I overlooked several devices that I hadn't thought about (that are on that 2nd circuit), satellite router, refrigerator, microwave, can opener and gas range (out of sight, out of mind──hidden receptacles); refrigerator, microwave and range are electronically controlled. I have further eliminated disposer, faucet and dishwasher on the 1st circuit , having unplugged/replugged them, and they seemed to have reset themselves, leaving only one problem circuit, well one I thought, now another has shown up in yet another circuit while testing each device in the one. Synopsis: there's noise on the satellite router, microwave, gas range, refrigerator, and if that's not quite enough, the third circuit jumped in with the washing machine; it's like a ghost entity moving around my electrical circuits, downright uncanny after nine years of working so beautifully.
Thanx
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bkenobi

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Re: X10 Works on all circuits but one
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2024, 06:39:59 PM »

At one point years ago I did a complete mapping of my electrical system including using a XTBM to determine noise of all devices on each circuit.  The ones you listed are some of my big hitters.  In my case, I decided to attack them with filters on the biggest culprits and accept defeat on a couple.  I added a 15A FilterLinc on all UPS power strips, washing machine, main refrigerator, by each side of bed where phones get charged, etc.  I was planning on adding some filtering on my HVAC system, but it was very difficult/complicated and once all other sources of noise were resolved it turned out to be less of an issue.  Hopefully you can filter the easiest to fix and you will be back in business.
 

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