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[rubimon]

I recently bought a bunch of x10 stuff, including a CM11A, etc. I have both a CM11A and a manual "button pusher on-er". Neither of them will turn on some of the outlets in my home, even though I've installed a (passive, not amplified) phase coupler.

It looks like most if not all of the suspect circuits have "arc fault breakers" installed. Will the X10 signal pass through an arc fault breaker? How would I solve this problem? Would an amplified phase coupler do it? I don't want to spend the bucks if it won't solve the problem.

Thanks.

[roger1818]

There isn't very much good information about the effect of Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters (AFCIs) on the X10 signal.  It is thought that some brands of AFCIs have noise traps that will absorb the X10 signal, but it isn't practical to switch to another brand of AFCI as that would mean replacing the entire panel.  Even if you were willing to do that, there isn't any guarantee that the new brand of AFCI will be any better.  Installing noise filters are of no help as the filtering is happening right inside the circuit breaker.

You could try installing a Coupler/Repeater (CR), and it will certainly help, but if your breaker panel is full of AFCIs, it may still absorb most of the signal generated by the CR and you may still have problem modules. 

The only option I can think of that is guaranteed to work is a powerline firewall (see Firewalls for more information), but they are very expensive and difficult to install and don't support X10 extended commands.

If you decide to try a CR and you still have one or two problem circuits, you could make your own firewall for those circuits by isolating them from the AFCI with an in-line noise filter and then linking the X10 signal with a second CR.  To do this you will need to use CRs that can be linked together such as the ACT CR-234.  You might also be able to use the CR-134 to link 3 circuits.  I have never tried anything like this, so I can't guarantee that it will work, but it should.  If you want more information on what I mean, let me know.

[Dan Lawrence]

BTW, Roger,  I belive the poster is in the UK or Europe, from his interface of as a CM11A, which is a UK model.

US electrical equipement doesn't work in the UK or Europe without converters.

[roger1818]

BTW, Roger,  I believe the poster is in the UK or Europe, from his interface of as a CM11A, which is a UK model.

The CM11A is the North American version.  The CM11U is the UK version.

US electrical equipment doesn't work in the UK or Europe without converters.

This would be true if he was in Europe.  ACT makes CRs for European power systems.

[rubimon]

There isn't very much good information about the effect of Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters (AFCIs) on the X10 signal.   ...

Thanks for the great info. I was afraid that the prognosis would be sort of grim. I've done some reading on AFCIs that indicates some of them have built-in filters.

I suppose I need to decided if it's worth the rist to buy the amplified CR or not; don't want to waste $70 or so ...

Question: is it possible for a homeowner to replace AFCIs with normal breakers, or is that against the law? Does it vary state by state?

To address the other poster's comment: I am in the US.

[rubimon]

Thanks for the great info. I was afraid that the prognosis would be sort of grim. I've done some reading on AFCIs that indicates some of them have built-in filters.

An update: I did a more careful look at the circuits last night. To be clear: the setup I'm using is a CM11A hooked up to my computer (running custom software I wrote using the published CM11A protocol) in an upstairs office. Neither the computer-controlled CM11A nor a "manual" controller can operate x10 devices in the room next door (bedroom, which is on an AFCI circuit), nor the master bedroom (also on an AFCI circuit) a floor below, nor the outlets in the basement family room two floors below (not on an AFCI circuit). The interesting thing is that the CM11A will operate outlets in the bedrooms in the basement, which are on an AFCI circuit. So two of the rooms that don't work on are AFCI circuits, but one isn't. And one of the rooms which works is on an AFCI circuit.

I must presume that the AFCIs are blocking the signal sometimes, but not always. Therefore, even though my passive phase coupler isn't far from the breaker box (maybe 10 feet), it seems probable that an amplified PC might be able to "break through" whatever filtering the AFCIs are doing and make all the outlets work on the two problem circuits.

It's not clear to me that all of the circuits that don't work are on the opposite phase; from looking at the breaker box, it's not obvious how the phases are wired. Is there a "rosetta stone" or other way to figure this out? Also, since only three out of about 20+ circuits don't work, I must presume that some circuits on the opposite phase are working, so the passive PC must be doing something right.

Any comments?

[roger1818]

Question: is it possible for a homeowner to replace AFCIs with normal breakers, or is that against the law? Does it vary state by state?

The electrical code varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but there does tend to be a common thread throughout Canada and the US.  Having said that, I am not an electricion and am not up to date with the latest changes in the electrical code, but the last time I looked at AFCIs (about a year ago) the electrical code required them on bedroom circutes only.  If this is still true, (I believe there are plans to make the mandatory throughout the house) you could legally replace the breakers on non-bedroom circuits with normal breakers.

Whether or not it is legal to replace them, don't forget that they are safety devices to help prevent electrical fires.

[roger1818]

. . . So two of the rooms that don't work on are AFCI circuits, but one isn't. And one of the rooms which works is on an AFCI circuit.

I must presume that the AFCIs are blocking the signal sometimes, but not always. Therefore, even though my passive phase coupler isn't far from the breaker box (maybe 10 feet), it seems probable that an amplified PC might be able to "break through" whatever filtering the AFCIs are doing and make all the outlets work on the two problem circuits.

The AFCIs aren't "blocking" the signal but weakening it.  Adding a Coupler/Repeater will help, I just can't guarantee that it will solve all of your problems, but it could easily do so.  One other thing to note it that the filter in the AFCI is probably a noise trap.  Since the filter is so close to the busbar in the breaker panel, it is weakening the signal on all circuits, that could be why you see problems on circuits that aren't on an AFCI. 

One thing you might want to try is turning off (or optimally temporarily remove) all of your AFCIs and see if the circuit that doesn't work and isn't on an AFCI starts to work.  If not, this has nothing to do with the AFCIs and is actually caused by something else either generating powerline noise or absorbing signal.

It's not clear to me that all of the circuits that don't work are on the opposite phase; from looking at the breaker box, it's not obvious how the phases are wired. Is there a "rosetta stone" or other way to figure this out?

Typically the phases alternate when going from slot to slot on the breaker panel in a single row (A-B-A-B-A-B...).  When looking at breakers in different rows, I believe the breakers in the same column are on the same phase (though I may be wrong and it may vary depending on the design).

ex.
A B A B A B A B
A B A B A B A B

Note: If you have two breaker switches in the same slot, they are both on the same phase.

Also, since only three out of about 20+ circuits don't work, I must presume that some circuits on the opposite phase are working, so the passive PC must be doing something right.

As long as your passive coupler is wired correctly, it should be working OK.

[steven r]

Pardon my ignorance but what is an "arc fault breaker"? How does it differ from a GFI breaker?

[steven r]

Pardon my ignorance but what is an "arc fault breaker"? How does it differ from a GFI breaker?

Answering my own question...  Check this article.

I guess that's what I have in my circuit box. (relatively new home) I had thought they were GFI breakers and always wondered why I'd have both GFI breakers and GFI outlets in the same house.

[Charles Sullivan]

rubimon:
If you can't figure out the relative phases from your breaker box, you can try this:

If you don't have a multimeter, get yourself one of the neon bulb voltage testers which usually sell for about $3 in places like Home Depot or Lowes.

Get two long extension cords.  Plug one into the receptacle where you have your CM11A, the other in a receptacle you wish to test.  Then use the multimeter or voltage tester to check the voltage between the two "hot" holes at the socket ends of the extension cords.  If the two receptacles are on the same phase there will be almost no voltage - not more than a few volts and not enough to light a neon bulb tester.  But if they're on different phases, you'll measure twice the normal line voltage.