X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: marineau on November 04, 2007, 06:51:44 PM
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Hi,
I have a ws467 to feed 3 incandescent bulbs 40 Watts !
When Turn On , with MiniController, or CM11A, or CM15A, it refuse to turn ON these 3 incandescent bulbs
When Turn OFF , with MiniController, or CM11A, or CM15A, it accept to turn OFF these 3 incandescent bulbs
When Turn On with his own button it accept to turn ON these 3 incandescent bulbs
When Turn Off with his own button it accept to turn Off these 3 incandescent bulbs
Now if I unscrew 2 bulbs , So Just 1 incandescent bulbs :
When Turn On , with MiniController, or CM11A, or CM15A, it accept to turn ON this 3 incandescent bulbs
When Turn OFF , with MiniController, or CM11A, or CM15A, it accept to turn OFF these 3 incandescent bulbs
When Turn On with his own button it accept to turn ON these 3 incandescent bulbs
When Turn Off with his own button it accept to turn Off these 3 incandescent bulbs
My questions are:
- why with any remote control my ws467cannot turn ON these 3 lamps, and I can for once incandescent bulb ?
- why locally ws467 can can turn ON these 3 incandescent bulbs ?
I tried with 3 incandescent bulbs 100 Watts, same problem !
I tried with 3 incandescent bulbs 25 Watts, same problem !
I tried with another WS467 and same problem !
With others words, WS467 (in remote) work fine with 1 incandescent bulb , but not with 2 or 3 incandescent bulbs !
I tried to install resistor 10K between pin9 and pin18 on chip 78566, same problem .
Does you know a solution for this problem ?
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Wow!
I'm stumped. :o
Why would it work with one bulb and not three? ???
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marineau,
Like Bill, I'm having problems coming up with a reason why a small resistive load (i.e. high resistance) would function where a heavier load will not.
Is it possible that you are having problems with a particular bulb fixture rather than the number of bulbs? Try moving your single bulb to different fixture to see if there is a difference.
What type of circuit and fixtures are you using (overhead can - flood, 3-way, etc).
This is reaching, but I have seen installations where a given fixture will tie into a neutral from a separate branch circuit. If this were the case, and you had a noise generator on the other branch, you could have problems communicating with the WS467. Lot's of ifs and maybe's - like I said, I'm reaching.
Boiler
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Boiler,
I tried with other bulb, and same problem !
Maybe a total resistive can do a difference...
I will try to disconnect a ws467 and interchange a Bue Wire with Black wire...
Maybe a polarity can do a difference !
Thanks
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...I tried with other bulb, and same problem !
Maybe a total resistive can do a difference...
I will try to disconnect a ws467 and interchange a Bue Wire with Black wire...
Maybe a polarity can do a difference !
I'm not at all sure what swapping the Black (line Input) and the Blue (controlled output) will do. Best case is it will screw up the phasing of the switch. Worst case, IT WILL MELT DOWN. Don't try this unless you've analyzed the schematic and understand exactly what reverse biasing the circuity will do.
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I tried to swap two wires, and same problem !
I suspect impedance (ohm) of each lamp connected in parallelle.
I tried with one bulb 100Watts only, and ON command work fine...
if I add one or two others 60watt bulbs... refuse to work for ON command
If I use 3 bulbs 60Watts ... don't work for ON command
I anyone have others ideas... you are welcome !
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Does add a neutral wire could resolv my problem ?
Does anyone have a MOD (with photo) to add a NeutralWire to WS467 ?
I don't understant an IDoBartana MOD, photo and detail are missing !
If I have to buy another model switch to sesolve my problem !
Does I have to buy XPD3 or WS12A
or XPDI3, XPS3 (with neutral wire)
Thanks
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Sorry, I have never seen this problem.
Again -
- Try moving your single bulb to a different fixture to see if there is a difference.
- What type of circuit and fixtures are you using (overhead can - flood, 3-way, etc).
- What is the date code of your WS467 (small round sticker on the unit)?
The XPD3 and the WS12a should be load insensitive since they use a neutral wire connection (but then you already know this). I can't say that they will work because I do not understand your problem.
Here's a different link to schematics for the WS467: Tom's Home Automation (http://www.laureanno.com/x10-mods.html). I have not tried the mods listed on this site.
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Do you have any idea how the lights are wired? Most of mine are the line and neutral are in the fixtures box and a switch loop is then to the switch. Meaning the hot line in the fixture goes to one of the wires to the switch and then the other from the switch goes to the lights line input. I have never seen this, but if the fixtures where wired differently; like the hot was directly on the lights and the switch was on the neutral side. I have no idea what strangeness could happen.
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I have this problem since one week, I didn't add any aquipment in my house since this time and didn't change anythings.
Here my setting in this picture:
(http://normand.inno.org/Ws467.jpg)
Thanks
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Did this problem start 1 week ago, after one of the lamps burned out?
I've had WS467 switches act up like this, had to replace the switch.
The triac inside was damaged by the current spike when the bulb blew.
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Did this problem start 1 week ago, after one of the lamps burned out?
I've had WS467 switches act up like this, had to replace the switch.
The triac inside was damaged by the current spike when the bulb blew.
I just noticed that this morning it worked fine while few hours...
And while that writing you, it don't working with 3 lamps !
But if Triac would be damagged, it would be permantly.
I'm asking if a problem Comes from a neighbor ?
Does you know if noise can come from neighbor ?
??? ??? ??? ???
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Do you know if the neighbor is close enough so that you both share a powerline transformer on the street?
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Do you know if the neighbor is close enough so that you both share a powerline transformer on the street?
Yes, we are 9 houses on same transformer ...
maybe that I have a neighbor with a old motor running and send noise on powerline...
and when I use one bulb a X10 Signal can pass by this BULB, but with 3 Bulbs can't !
Note that I have many LampModul (LMxx) and all work fine !
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Sorry, I have never seen this problem.
Again -
- What is the date code of your WS467 (small round sticker on the unit)?
A date code is: 06h35
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Boiler,
I tried with other bulb, and same problem !
Maybe a total resistive can do a difference...
I will try to disconnect a ws467 and interchange a Bue Wire with Black wire...
Maybe a polarity can do a difference !
Thanks
A little late, but FWIW:
The WS467 doesn't give a rip which way it is connected. I always thought it would because connecting the blue wire to the hot would mean any X10 signal on the line would hit the choke first before getting to the controller chip and thus be attenuated...Kirchhoff's law says otherwise and apparently Kirkchoff is right, because I can't tell any difference in performance when exchanging the blue and black wire connections.
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A date code is: 06h35
Thank you for providing the date code. I believe your unit is the older design and should conform to the schematics on the web. This is a good thing.
I am still leaning toward a fixture (or fixture wiring) problem.
From your first post -
I tried with 3 incandescent bulbs 100 Watts, same problem !
I tried with 3 incandescent bulbs 25 Watts, same problem !
I tried with another WS467 and same problem !
From your 3'rd post
...
I tried with one bulb 100Watts only, and ON command work fine...
if I add one or two others 60watt bulbs... refuse to work for ON command
If I use 3 bulbs 60Watts ... don't work for ON command
In summary,
- You switch works normally when you activate it with the push-button. This is NOT a triac problem.
- The circuit works with a single 100 Watt load but not with two 100 watt loads (200 watt total) or three 25watt loads (75 watt total).
The fact that the circuit will function 100 a single load but not with multiple 25 or 100 watt loads make no sense - unless you have a fixture or fixture wiring problem. As Dave_W so eliquently put it - the WS467 doesn't give a rip about the number of loads, just the type of load and the load resistance.
Please verify that you do not have a fixture problem as following.
- Take a single bulb and operate it in each of your three light fixtures. If the bulb will operate in one fixture but not another, the fixture (or wiring) is at fault.
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Please verify that you do not have a fixture problem as following.
- Take a single bulb and operate it in each of your three light fixtures. If the bulb will operate in one fixture but not another, the fixture (or wiring) is at fault.
My Ws467 worked fine while many months, and failed on week ago !
I tried with another Ws467 and I have a same problem !
I just replaced temporarily my Ws467 by LM465, and all work fine, 1, 2, or 3 bulbs !
Note that I was obligate to use a neutral wire !
Now, I can turn ON or OFF all time !
I installed this like this photo:
(http://normand.inno.org/lm465.jpg)
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...I installed this like this photo:
(http://normand.inno.org/lm465.jpg)
Wow! Talk about an inspector's nightmare. I hope you come up with a more permanent solution that doesn't risk getting your insurance canceled.
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Wow! Talk about an inspector's nightmare. I hope you come up with a more permanent solution that doesn't risk getting your insurance canceled.
Yes :) , I will buy XPD3 or WS12A !
Maybe XPDI3, XPS3 (with neutral wire) !
But I'm not sure that I have to buy !
I you have suggestion, you are welcome !
Thanks
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My problem is resolved ! I writing to tell you why I has this problem !
Here my setting:
- All my X10 Device are installing to PhaseA (no exception).
- MicroWave, 3 PC-Computer, 2TV, 2Satellite receiver, Freezer, etc are installing to PhaseB.
- 3 PC-computer, 2 TV, 2 Satellite receiver are all connected to once(same) AF120 (ACT) filter 15A module.
If I turn ON my PC-Computer AMD 1600Mhz, my WS467 refuse to turn ON 3 bulbs, accept once bulb, and accept to turn OFF with 1,2 or 3 bulbs.
If I turn OFF my PC-Computer AMD 1600Mhz, my WS467 accept to turn ON or OFF 1,2 or 3 bulbs anytime.
So, my problem is really my AMD_PC_Computer_1600… but it connected to filter, and connected on PhaseB…
PS: Note that I don’t have a phase coupler installed !
Why does this PC send a noise Through filter, and from PhaseB to PhaseA ?
Does noise can affect my Ws467 via airway ?
Does I will obligate to change PC's PowerSupplies for a better brand ?
Thanks