X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: BAS-Sr on September 19, 2016, 09:04:18 AM
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I have had the X10 technology installed in my home for over 18 years, in general works very well, have a few issues but most prevalent is the ability of the CM11A to send the signal (signal strength) to the farthest modules. Tried a power enhancer, that lasted about a year before the unit went bad and I am not going to spend more $$$ for that product.
I have been running the earlier version (1.45) of Active Home, just upgraded to the 3.3 version. Seems to connect to the CM11A fine, much nicer user interface! :-)
I also see that there is now a newer version of the CM11A, the CM15A. Does the CM15A provide a stronger signal output than the CM11A?
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Does the CM15A provide a stronger signal output than the CM11A?
It's marginally better. See...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/x10-sig.html (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/x10-sig.html)
Also see...
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!msg/comp.home.automation/axugzRBQZYo/SHBXsD-rOmgJ (https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!msg/comp.home.automation/axugzRBQZYo/SHBXsD-rOmgJ)
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The CM15A is a newer unit than the CM11A.
It has a completely different interface to the computer. CM11A is serial. CM15A is USB.
Also the older Active Home software will not work on a CM15A that uses Active Home Pro software. As you found out. The later versions of AHP also would work with a CM11A.
The CM15A also has an X10 RF receiver and RF transmitter in it. So it can receive RF signals from things like X10 Motion Sensors and X10 RF remotes.
Many of us use the Cadillac of X10 Coupler Repeaters. An XTB-IIR. It blasts over a 20 volt X10 signal back on both incoming lines. Mine has been running for many years now. Jeff's designs are good.
http://jvde.us/xtb-iir.htm
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If you keep a PC running 24/7 and the CM11A setup otherwise works well for you, you could also upgrade to Jeff's XTB-232. It functions identically to the CM11A except it does not have built-in event memory and timer, so it requires that the computer remain connected and on. It sends a much stronger signal on the power line and is much more reliable, however. It and the CM11A also work with the latest version of ActiveHome Pro and the scripting SDK.
The main reason I would replace the CM11A with the XTB-232 is to increase reliability of the CM11A itself as I've had lots of issues with them locking up. If you have other signal issues, it won't necessarily solve them. The XTB-IIR repeater that Brian mentioned would do a lot more for general signal issues than the XTB-232 would.
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There are lots of ways to go but it depends on what your ultimate goal is. If you want to keep things as close to the current configuration as possible but increase reliability, I'd recommend the XTB-IIR. If you want to update your controller and keep the same PC running, the XTB-232 might be a good way to go (I've never used either a CM11A or XTB-232 so I'm just going on forum opinions/posts). If you want to update the controller to a newer standard and/or upgrade the system the controller connects to, I'd consider going with the CM15A as it has usb and is compatible with Windows, Linux, etc and there are lots of options for HA software.
If you simply want to improve your reliability in a couple rooms, you might consider starting with the XTBM to locate your signal problems and correct them with the appropriate solution (filters for starters). If you do want to go with filters, check ebay first as I've found a number of used Smart Home filters for a very affordable price. They go for ~$50 new but I've gotten them for around $5-10 + shipping.
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Thanks for all the input! :-)
Little more info on my installation:
- I have a TM751 installed for using handheld remotes, always get good response to turning on/off modules from that since the output level is twice the CM11A.
- I have my CM11A placed in an outlet very close (within ten feet) of the circuit panel so the signal does not have to travel too far to distribute though out the house.
- I also have 2 circuit panels in my home (have over 70 circuit breakers between both of them) bridged by a power distribution panel above the 2 circuit panels.
- I have a Leviton phase coupler/bridge between 2 of the circuit breakers in one of the circuit panels bridging the 2 110VAC circuits.
I want to keep my installation as simple as possible, do not keep my PC and AH connected, the CM11A is the stand alone controller I have used, just seem to run into issues (not all modules getting the signal) at times. I know I have some frequency interference at times from something in my house, I think it it my HVAC (geothermal) system, seems like the X10 modules respond (turn on/off) better in the spring/fall when no heat or AC is running.
I looked at the output signal strength of the CM15A, only 1 volt more than the CM11A....got to think about whether or not it is worth the $$$ to try.
I just seem to find that I occasionally have to drain the CM11A, reload the DB, and seems to work for 6 to 8 weeks. Always change the batteries too when I do that.
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It does sound like you have marginal power line signals. Since the stronger output TM751 has better control than the CM11A.
Have you tried isolating possible signal suckers and noise makers. By unplugging some electronics and seeing if things improve?
Do you know if the Leviton is a passive coupler/bridge or an active coupler/repeater?
Depending on availability. Jeff at JV Digital Engineering sometimes has loaner XTBM X10 test meters some users have used to trace down signal issues.
Jeff has a great set of X10 troubleshooting tutorials you may want to look at.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
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OK, so I bought a CM15A, new off eBay.
In preparation of the CM15A, I upgraded the Active Home 1.x software to the Active Home Pro 3.6 software.
Seemed like the new AHP worked with the CM11A just fine, still having signal issues that same as I had previously, but I did not expect to see any difference with the signal strength just because I upgraded the software app.
Received the CM15A, hooked it up via USB, first thing I did was to clear the interface memory, took over an hour for this to finish, seemed a little odd to me that it took so long. Now at this point I have had the AHP software loaded for about a week, each time I load it, asks me to register? Loaded the modules down to the CM15A (I only have 2 modules I use on a regular basis, other codes I have I use the handheld remote to turn on/off). Module load seemed to go fine, checked/setup the time/date/location in the CM15A with AHP, all seemed to work fine, but it did NOT control the modules on or off at all.
So at this point I was wondering if the new AHP needs to be purchased/registered for it to work with the CM15A? Or could I just have a faulty CM15A?
So I the unloaded the AHP, reloaded the Active Home 1.x software, now that version says I don't have a valid COM1 port (even though I do, checked BIOS and Windows, both say it is working fine). I also made sure that when I was reloading the AH 1.x, I made the change in the COM port default.
Does the AH Pro 3.6 have a trial period? Do I need to purchase it to have it work with the CM15A?
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Where did you get AHP 3.6? The latest version is 3.318.
If the modules not working are LM465 Lamp Modules.
Are they Soft Start, where they ramp On and Off or older instant On and Off?
If they are the older ones that are not soft start. You have to define them from the Old Lamps Before (Soft Start) module list or they may not work correctly.
The COM port thing could be left over programs not removed. I believe X10NETS may still be there and starting claiming the COM1 port.
Tuicemen has a whole forum section devoted the AHP. You may want to give it a look. He has a program [Life Jacket] that allows you to install AHP on new installation as X10WTI registrations servers are long gone.
http://tuicemen.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=pn6vnt29i80sla8r0ajpmn5el5&board=44.0
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I do not have access to a computer with AHP to test at the moment, but IIRC, there is an item on the Tools menu in AHP that allows you to set the COM port for the CM11A. As long as it is set to use a CM11A and COM port, some features will not work with the CM15A and the X10NETS service will hold whatever COM port you have selected open, making it unavailable to other programs. This could be your problem.
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I do not have access to a computer with AHP to test at the moment, but IIRC, there is an item on the Tools menu in AHP that allows you to set the COM port for the CM11A. As long as it is set to use a CM11A and COM port, some features will not work with the CM15A and the X10NETS service will hold whatever COM port you have selected open, making it unavailable to other programs. This could be your problem.
That is exactly what I also found out.
I had done some CM11A tests with the COM1 port set.
The programs I use serial port communications to other controllers gave a COM port in use message.
I set X10NETS service to manual from automatic. So it didn't automatically start at boot up. It still stayed running if AHP was started.
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Where did you get AHP 3.6? The latest version is 3.318.
If the modules not working are LM465 Lamp Modules.
Are they Soft Start, where they ramp On and Off or older instant On and Off?
If they are the older ones that are not soft start. You have to define them from the Old Lamps Before (Soft Start) module list or they may not work correctly.
No, I use the LM465 quite a bit around the house, same code to turn on lights at dusk and turn them off later at night. The problem is with the ones that I have a far ends of the circuits such as the one I use to turn on the spotlight for my flagpole, it works fine with handheld remote via the TM751 receiver, but the CM11A is just not enough signal strength even though it is plugged into an outlet 5' from the circuit panel.
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Thanks for the heads up about the setting in AHP, did not think about that setting, not sure if that was the issue with communicating to the CM11A with the older version of AH.
Uninstalled the older AH, re-installed the AHP and yes, the CM11A was set for COM1, disabled that and now I am communicating with the CM15A, can turn lights on/off via the AHP, so let's see how it works tonight! :-)
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The problem is with the ones that I have a far ends of the circuits such as the one I use to turn on the spotlight for my flagpole, it works fine with handheld remote via the TM751 receiver, but the CM11A is just not enough signal strength even though it is plugged into an outlet 5' from the circuit panel.
In a test I did at our own home some time ago, I plugged a Maxi Controller into a 50 foot extension cord that was plugged into an outlet adjacent to the main distribution panel. I was surprised to find that about 90% of the signal voltage was lost over that run. So it is easy to see how X10 devices located a long run from the panel may not receive enough signal to function reliably unless the signal level is boosted. There may even be significant loss from an outlet located 5 feet away from the panel if the actual wire run is longer.
Jeff
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OK, I had high hopes for last night since I was able to control lights thru the CM15A yesterday, but lights did not go on last night, ended up turning them after dark via the handheld remote/TM751, and they did not go off per the scheduled time off (11:30PM).
When I first got the CM15A, I loaded the old data from the CM11A file I had. Could I need to delete the modules and re-create them in the AHP for them to work in the CM15A?
I just can't get this CM15A to work on a schedule at all?
Basically I have 2 events that are programed to happen each night that are in my database as follows:
House code A number 12, on at dusk, off at 11:30PM
House code A number 15, on at dusk, off at 11:30PM
I check the geographical location, set to Freehold, NJ, very close to Millstone Township. Time in CM15A shows same as my PC.
I would assume that this CM15A should work running the schedule if I can execute each of these to turn lights on/off via the AHP through the CM15A? It says it loads the modules fine?
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Are the timers downloaded into the CM15A or set to run from AHP running 24/7 on the computer?
If you downloaded the timers. Did you then move it to a new location?
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Are the timers downloaded into the CM15A or set to run from AHP running 24/7 on the computer?
If you downloaded the timers. Did you then move it to a new location?
Not sure I understand? When I download the DB to the interface (whether it is the CM11A or the CM15A), they should run from the interface after I disconnect the interface from the PC, that's the way the CM11A works, so I am assuming the CM15A works the same.
Now that said, I have noticed that there is one LM465 that seems to go bad periodically, and after I replace it, everything seems to work fine after that. This LM465 has a string of Christmas tree lights on it my wife uses for light at night. Wondering why this LM465 is always the one that goes bad?
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Here is the timer setup data from the X10 WIKI.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Creating_A_Timer
You may want to verify the Store In Interface option is enabled.
Default is On but you may want to verify it any way.
If you are trying this on the CM11A and moved it from where it was plugged in. It may have lost its time and is waiting for the clock to be reset.
On the CM15A when disconnected from the computer. Don't leave the USB cable hanging freely off of the CM15As USB Port.
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Here is the timer setup data from the X10 WIKI.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Creating_A_Timer
You may want to verify the Store In Interface option is enabled.
Default is On but you may want to verify it any way.
If you are trying this on the CM11A and moved it from where it was plugged in. It may have lost its time and is waiting for the clock to be reset.
On the CM15A when disconnected from the computer. Don't leave the USB cable hanging freely off of the CM15As USB Port.
Thanks Brian! :-)
I checked the setup list in the URL you provided, Store in Interface was checked, but I did not have "Repeat" checked, so I checked that also since this might alleviate the modules not turning on with only one command being sent. Does that work for both "on" commands as well as "off" commands?
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Also, I always "Clear Interface Memory" before I do a download.
For tonight I am going to leave AHP running and connected to the CM15A, let's see if that works? :-)
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When you configure using the CM15 is the cm11 connection checked disabled?
If not AHP may be trying to update the interface using a comport and not the USB needed for the cm15.
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When you configure using the CM15 is the cm11 connection checked disabled?
If not AHP may be trying to update the interface using a comport and not the USB needed for the cm15.
Yup, the CM11A is disabled.
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Well, last night worked, but not 100%.
I replaced the bad LM465. Quick review of what installed modules/codes and what happened last night:
- Using code A-12, 7 LM465 and one WS467 modules, don't have a separate WS467 module in the AHP DB setup, using the LM465 module to control ALL A-12 coded modules.
- Using code A-15, one LM465 module on a long run circuit.
- Last night ran AHP on the PC with the USB cable connected to the CM15A, but CM15A was not in the outlet closest to the circuit panel.
- At dusk I see in the AHP event log one "ON" command being sent out for codes A-12 and A-15 (100% brightness), but the WS467 did not turn on, all other modules (A-12 and A-15) did go on.
- At 11:30 I see 3 "OFF" commands being sent out for codes A-12 and A-15, A-15 module shut off, but none of the A-12 modules that were on shut off.
Tonight I plan on disconnecting the CM15A from the USB cable and moving it to the outlet closest to the circuit panel, no other changes to see what happens?
Why did the AHP/Interface only send one "ON" command even though I had "REPEAT" set in the AHP DB setup?
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With AHP running and the CM15A plugged into the PC, let the scheduled event occur. Look at the logs to see if AHP saw traffic on PLC. If you have the CM15A disconnected from your PC (I believe you said that was your intent) make sure that the check box for running the event on the controller is set. It can be run from either the PC or the controller and if you have it set to AHP but the controller is not connected, it may not fire.
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Well, success last night! 99% of the lights went on at dusk, and they all went off as scheduled. This is with the CM15A disconnected from the PC plugged into the outlet closest to the circuit panel.
I had one LM465 that did not go on? It is on a circuit where the outlet is about 8' past where there is another LM465 that did go on?
I have not checked the activity log in the CM15A, but still have a question about the "REPEAT" not sending multiple commands for "ON" where I do see multiple commands for "OFF" being sent? Any reason that would work that way? I would assume that the interface should send both "ON" and "OFF" commands multiple times?
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Are both LM465s the same type?
Both Soft Start or both older before Soft Start?
In the Preferences Tab.
Macro Options.
Is the Issue 'On' in place of Bright 100% checked?
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Are both LM465s the same type?
Both Soft Start or both older before Soft Start?
I checked the operation using the handheld remote this morning, the first LM465 looks like it is soft start (light came on slowly) where the one further down the circuit came on hard (just came on, not slowly).
Should I have 2 modules in the DB, one for newer LM465's (soft start) and another module for the older ones?
I did add a module for the WS467 since I have one of those outlet's which does give me trouble going on at times (seems like it needs more signal than the LM465's).
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If the X10 address for the LM465s was chosen from the Lamp Module Tab. Try using the X10 Address for the LM465 from the Old before Soft Start Tab. Both soft start and older ones should respond to the commands from that list.
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If the X10 address for the LM465s was chosen from the Lamp Module Tab. Try using the X10 Address for the LM465 from the Old before Soft Start Tab. Both soft start and older ones should respond to the commands from that list.
Not having issues withe LM465's, issue is with WS467.
As I said, the WS467 will go on when I "Turn All Lights ON" using the AHP connected to the CM15, but when the CM15 is not connected, does not turn on the WS467?
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Well the later WS476's are also Soft Start and have Preset Dim settings.
So it is also listed in both the Lamp and Older Lamp before Soft Start tabs.
Though I don't think this is you issue.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Newer_Wall_Switches_and_Preset_Dim