X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: andyd on April 19, 2017, 02:30:59 PM
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It's been a long time since my last post perhaps because my basic CM15A control system continues to do what I intended to do.
I was digging through my box of X10 stuff and came across two KR15A "Big Reds". I had abandoned these a long time ago as I could not get them to switch anything. I decided to investigate why they didn't work.
Using a digital storage scope I was able to sample the internal logic waveform that controls the RF transmitter and also the RF output itself. I captured the waveforms and decoded them. For a single short press of the button the device sends 3 words - A1 ON, A bright 005, A bright 005. As far as I have been able to research, this is the intended word sequence. The RF envelope shows clean on/off switching between data bits (much better than some of my wall switches). However, the KR15A is not seen by my CM15A and does not switch on a separate test setup consisting of a TM751 and a lamp module.
I also checked the frequency of the RF output. It is closer to 310 MHz than other RF transmitters that work ok.
Does anyone on group have a KR15A that does turn on a lamp module that is set to the same code? If so, do you have the equipment/ability to capture the RF command sequence and let me know what it is sending? If using a digital storage scope I'd like to see the waveform captures.
I'll be happy to share my test results by email off group if anyone is interested in sharing data.
I know I should just bin them but I'm retired and I'm curious.
Thanks,
Andy D.
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Here is a link to some of the X10 RF protocol.
Not sure if it will be any help.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/rf.html
You probably know the KR15A is a unique X10 remote. Short button push sends an X10 On command. Hold the button longer is is supposed to ding a SH10A small Powerhorn. Hold it longer it triggers a siren sound from the SH10A small Powerhorn.
I will unpack one of my KR15A remotes and see what I can find out. Though mine where very flaky even after a direct reset.
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All three of my KR15A from storage have very intermittent Red Buttons.
I suspect that is why the TM751 and RR501 showed a different number of ABright commands.
Smarthome 1132CU Interface for receiving the X10 Power Line Commands:
Single Button Push. RR501 Transceiver:
R: A1 - 6:42:31 PM 4/19/2017
R: AOn - 6:42:31 PM 4/19/2017
R: ABright - 6:42:32 PM 4/19/2017
R: ABright - 6:42:32 PM 4/19/2017
Single Button Push. TM751 Transceiver:
R: A1 - 7:26:25 PM 4/19/2017
R: AOn - 7:26:25 PM 4/19/2017
R: ABright - 7:26:26 PM 4/19/2017
Two different CM15A Interfaces with all House Codes set to be Transceived. One real early hardware one a later hardware.
I know they had different firmware version suffixes on the controller IC.
No RF commands received from a KR15A. They did process RF commands from a HR12A Palm Pad.
Tried a X10Pro PLM01 Lamp Module not Soft Start. Went On 100%
Tried a Black and Decker Freeewire. FWLR not Soft Start. Went On 100%.
Tried a X10 LM14A Two Way Lamp Module. Has Soft Start. Went On to about 50%
Tried a X10 LM465 Soft Start early firmware. Went On to about 50%.
Tried a X10 LM456 Soft Start later firmware. Went On to about 50%
The ABright commands probably set the On level for the Soft Start Models.
Old no Soft Start go full On then dim down.
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I'd like to see the 'scope traces. While it has been a long while, I once was very familiar with the RF protocol. Maybe I'll see something to explain this. Might the KR15A be sending the security protocol? See...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/rf.html (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/rf.html)
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Thanks for the replies.
I used internet references "X10 RF Receiver" which explains that X10 follows NEC IR protocol and also "NEC Infrared Transmission Protocol" as reference documents. Neither of these references mention a "preamble" that is referenced in other sources. I'm assuming the "preamble" is only used for devices that interface with security systems. My "Big Red" does not transmit a preamble.
I have attempted to attach 3 scope captures. There are Word 1, Word 2, and Word 3 of the RF transmission. I have also attempted to attach the worksheet that documents my analysis of the waveforms.
Thanks for the interest.
Andy D
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"Two different CM15A Interfaces with all House Codes set to be Transceived. One real early hardware one a later hardware.
I know they had different firmware version suffixes on the controller IC.
No RF commands received from a KR15A. They did process RF commands from a HR12A Palm Pad."
Well that is consistent with what I see. I have not been able to turn on any lamp modules but I don't have a big selection to test.
Thanks for running the tests!
Andy D
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Thanks for the 'scope screenshots. The only X10 RF Receiver documentation I could find online is a 12 page PDF which, after borrowing heavily from my webpage (which I referenced earlier), goes on to provide an excellent explanation.
www.printcapture.com/files/X10_RF_Receiver.pdf (http://www.printcapture.com/files/X10_RF_Receiver.pdf)
Returning to your screenshots, the first decodes to A1 ON and it uses the X10 Standard RF Protocol. Here I use Standard to differentiate from the X10 Security RF Protocol (motion sensors, etc.). Since it is transmitting the standard codes rather than the security version it should be handled by the CM15A. NOTE: I am not really familiar with the standard CM15A - I've replaced the MCU with one of my own design.
How many copies of the code does the KR15A transmit? If it is only sending a single copy, that may not be sufficient for the CM15A's AGC circuitry. Most remotes send a minimum of 5 copies but the security remote (SH624) sends a single copy.
I have daily medical appointments that take about half the day (and some leave me exhausted) so my assistance, such as it is, may be sporadic.
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I found the newer TM751 modules also do not process the KR15A RF commands.
XTB-IIR Coupler Repeater turned off.
Smarthome 1132CU power line interface receiving commands.
The two newer TM751s are the ones marked. Tested To Comply To FCC Standards.
They have the same basic RF receiver daughter board in them as the CM15A.
The older one has the actual FCC ID on it and a different receiver circuit.
Interface TM751 Date Code 00D17:
HR12A Remote:
R: A1 - 7:13:49 AM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:13:49 AM 4/20/2017
KR15A:
R: A1 - 7:21:31 AM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:21:31 AM 4/20/2017
R: ABright - 7:21:31 AM 4/20/2017
R: MDim - 7:21:32 AM 4/20/2017 (Not sure what this is.)
Interface TM751 Date Code 10E19:
HR12A Remote:
R: A1 - 7:26:02 AM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:26:02 AM 4/20/2017
KR15A Remote:
Did not process the RF commands.
Interface TM751 Date Code 09L53:
HR12A Remote:
R: A1 - 7:38:53 AM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:38:54 AM 4/20/2017
KR15A Remote:
Did not process the RF commands.
I also tried a few different aged RR501s. They all seemed to be fine with the KR15A.
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"How many copies of the code does the KR15A transmit? "
A single short press of the red button sends 3 words as shown in the scope captures. My decodes of these three words were included in the worksheet. There is only one copy of "A1 ON" per button press. i tried pressing the button several times but the TM751 did not respond.
I noticed the similarity between the PDF and the web page. In even reproduces the typo "ACG" which should be "AGC" (Automatic Gain Control).
Andy D
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The two newer TM751s are the ones marked. Tested To Comply To FCC Standards.
They have the same basic RF receiver daughter board in them as the CM15A.
All the above are superheterodyne receivers while the others are superregenerative receivers. I suspect it's a matter of different AGC circuitry with the superhets needing more repeats of each code. A better receiving antenna may also make a difference,
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SC1200 Security Console Date Code 10L52
Has an RF receiver daughter board.
Maybe using the same RX3310 RF receiver IC as the newer TM751 and CM15A.
HR12A:
R: A1 - 8:28:12 AM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 8:28:13 AM 4/20/2017
KR15A:
No RF processing.
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A single short press of the red button sends 3 words as shown in the scope captures. My decodes of these three words were included in the worksheet. There is only one copy of "A1 ON" per button press. i tried pressing the button several times but the TM751 did not respond.
I had overlooked the link to your worksheet.
I noticed the similarity between the PDF and the web page. In even reproduces the typo "ACG" which should be "AGC" (Automatic Gain Control).
I wrote that about 20 years ago. My typo has gone unreported (maybe unnoticed) in all those years.
I still think it's related to the AGC and maybe the supervising MCU on the receiver board wants to see repeats.
I don't think the Dims will mean anything to a lamp that's off. Does a lamp that's initially ON dim a wee bit?
It would be of interest (at least to me) to see how the superhet devices respond to the SH624 if you or Brian should have one.
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"The two newer TM751s are the ones marked. Tested To Comply To FCC Standards."
The TM751 used for the test has that marking. It also has a sticker "07K45" which I'm assuming is the date code. I have another TM751 opened up as the electrolytic cap has failed. It has the same FCC marking and sticker code and It uses the Himark receiver board.
When testing the "Big Red" with the TM751 the separation ranged between a few feet and a few inches. I don't think lack of signal was a factor although it's possible receiver overload was. AGC typically sets the receiver at max gain until a signal is received then the gain is reduced as needed for that signal.
When I browsed this group for posts about the KR15A I was left with the impression that many had been returned as inop and had been replaced with a version that worked. I wonder if that later version included multiple repeats of the commands.
Andy D.
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The KR15A I was testing with was a 00I37 and had a sticker on it P10378D. I believe that is the controller chips part number and the "D" suffix was firmware version.
I have also seen different suffixes on the main controller chip part number in the CM15.
I can dig out my SH624 from my now mothballed SC1200 Security Console system. To see what I can find out.
All three of my KR15A remotes have very intermittent buttons. The one I am testing with had to be disassembled and the PCB runs and rubber conductive pads on the buttons where cleaned so it would work fairly well.
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"The KR15A I was testing with was a 00I37 and had a sticker on it P10378D."
I don't know what the codes mean but, just for the record, my KR15A used to produce the scope captures is also P10378D with sticker 06J42.
Andy D
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The Tested To Comply To FCC Standards is not 100% reliable as I have seen at least one TM751 with it but also with the superregenerative receiver. That may have just been some old inventory.
I believe it should only be applied to those with superhet receivers for which the FCC allows self testing.
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I opened the TM751 that I had used for the testing. I uses the Himark RX3310A. I connected the receiver "data out" and ground to temporary test wires to bring them out of the case so I could see what the receiver was sending to the microcontroller. I gave up on that very quickly when I found the logic ground of the internal circuits is connected to mains power hot! I suppose its wired that way so the signal modulation can be imposed on the power line. I should have checked before I wired the test leads but no harm done.
If I decide to continue with the instrumentation idea I'll probably have to put an opto-coupler inside the case.
Andy D
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The Himark RX3310A is a superheterodyne receiver. It is also used in the CM15A.
Most X10 modules are powered that way (CM15A has a transformer). It's a cheap, transformerless capacitive power supply.
I may have a KR15A in my junk box of older X10 modules. If so, I also have a new USB 'scope I've yet to setup and try - this may be fun to track down.
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I did find one buried in the catacombs and with new batteries it flashes its red LED. I'll try to set up the 'scope and some type of receiver tomorrow afternoon.
Have you tried to capture what it sends after long presses as outlined in the user manual?
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/KR15A (http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/KR15A)
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"Have you tried to capture what it sends after long presses as outlined in the user manual?"
No, not yet. I don't have the device those codes are intended to activate so no interest at the moment. I was just looking for a more powerful RF sender to activate my garage door opener timer. Garage door opener is powered for 10 minutes after macro initiation then power is removed for security.
My RF monitoring technique was very simple. I connected a 17 inch length of wire between probe tip and probe ground. I formed the wire into 2 turns and placed the RF sender on top of it. The 17 inches wire just happened to be at hand. it was not cut based on wavelength. With my Rigol scope it was very easy to trigger on the command sequence and to store it.
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SH10A Small Powerhorn.
Sending an On or Off to its address.
Then a Bright it will Ding or a Dim it will Dong.
Single Button Push:
R: A1 - 7:14:47 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:14:47 PM 4/20/2017
R: ABright - 7:14:48 PM 4/20/2017
Sounded a Ding.
Hold Button longer:
R: A1 - 7:15:02 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:15:02 PM 4/20/2017
R: ABright - 7:15:03 PM 4/20/2017
R: ADim - 7:15:04 PM 4/20/2017
R: ABright - 7:15:04 PM 4/20/2017
R: ADim - 7:15:05 PM 4/20/2017
R: ABright - 7:15:06 PM 4/20/2017
Sounded Ding Dong Sounds.
Changed to this:
R: A1 - 7:15:08 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:15:08 PM 4/20/2017
R: A1 - 7:15:09 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:15:09 PM 4/20/2017
R: A1 - 7:15:10 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:15:10 PM 4/20/2017
R: A1 - 7:15:11 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:15:12 PM 4/20/2017
R: A1 - 7:15:12 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:15:13 PM 4/20/2017
R: A1 - 7:15:13 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 7:15:14 PM 4/20/2017
R: A1 - 7:15:14 PM 4/20/2017
Started screeching
Released button:
R: AOn - 7:15:14 PM 4/20/2017
R: ABright - 7:15:15 PM 4/20/2017
R: ABright - 7:15:16 PM 4/20/2017
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SH624 Date Code: 10L51
Code Button activated to generate a new Security Code.
Fast Tap Unit 1 On button for shortest transmission.
XTB-IIR Repeater Coupler turned Off.
Smarthome 1123CU receiving X10 Power Line commands.
Old RR501 Date Code: 02F23
R: A1 - 1:59:11 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 1:59:11 PM 4/20/2017
New RR501 Date Code: 10G28
R: A1 - 2:00:25 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 2:00:25 PM 4/20/2017
New TM751 Date Code 10E29:
R: A1 - 2:03:26 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 2:03:26 PM 4/20/2017
Old TM751 Date Code: 00D17
R: A1 - 2:05:29 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 2:05:30 PM 4/20/2017
CM15A Date Code: 05C10
Stand Alone in an outlet:
R: A1 - 2:06:54 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 2:06:55 PM 4/20/2017
Connected to AHP and Registered in On Alert:
R: A1 - 2:18:44 PM 4/20/2017
R: AOn - 2:18:44 PM 4/20/2017
Security buttons did show in AHP but no activity on the power lines.
None of the other tested modules had any power line actions. With Security Buttons.
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R: MDim - 7:21:32 AM 4/20/2017 (Not sure what this is.)
That might be what I referred to as a microdim here...
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SH624 Date Code: 10L51
Code Button activated to generate a new Security Code.
Fast Tap Unit 1 On button for shortest transmission.
I'm fairly certain that the SH624 only sends a single copy no matter how long the press is. At least that's how mine works.
Am I correct that all of your receivers report the SH624 but only the older ones report the KR15A?
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AGC typically sets the receiver at max gain until a signal is received then the gain is reduced as needed for that signal.
What I really meant was the Threshold Control of the Data Slicer which needs to see a few copies of the code to charge its capacitor. And I was thinking of how superregenerative receivers do things - I'm not as familiar with the low level workings of superheterodyne receivers.
You can see how the superregen works here...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/rf-noise.html (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/rf-noise.html)
and the Data Slicer circuit is shown 2/3 down this page...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/RFTipsTricks.html (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/RFTipsTricks.html)
I suspect the comparator and Cpa, Cpb (shown in the RX3310A datasheet) function similarly but have never put a 'scope on them.
web.icasic.com:8000/WXSFXP/HIMARK/RX3310.pdf (http://web.icasic.com:8000/WXSFXP/HIMARK/RX3310.pdf)
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SH624 Date Code: 10L51
Code Button activated to generate a new Security Code.
Fast Tap Unit 1 On button for shortest transmission.
I'm fairly certain that the SH624 only sends a single copy no matter how long the press is. At least that's how mine works.
Am I correct that all of your receivers report the SH624 but only the older ones report the KR15A?
Correct
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I found a way to record the data output of the TM751 Himark receiver without electrocuting myself. At first glance it appears that the receiver data output is a clone of the signal transmitted by the KR15A. That suggests the problem is nothing to do with signal strength, antennas, or AGC response time.
I'll refine the test set-up a bit so I record RF and receiver output at the same time and then post the scope images.
Andy D
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In the following images the top trace is the KR15A RF output and the bottom trace is the digital data output of the Himark receiver in a TM751. It can be seen that the data output tracks the RF signal.
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At attachment limit for previous post.
The receiver output has lots of noise spikes until the AGC reduces sensitivity when the KR15A signal is received. The AGC recovery can be seen between words.
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In the follwoing images the top trace is the KR15A RF output and the bottom trace is the digital data output of the Himark receiver in a TM751. It can be seen that the data output tracks the RF signal.
So it would appear that the newer TM751 and the CM15A receive the RF data out but interpret it differently than do the older TM751s. How much time is there between A1 ON & A BRT or A DIM?
And, my ACG is not the only crossed fingers typo. ;D
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I'm guessing they want to see each command more than once. It would be good to have data from a KR15A that does does drive a newer TM751 or CM15A if such a thing exists.
Andy D
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All of my CM15A units are the older ones. Before they where redesigned. Using surface mounted parts and the RF daughter boards where removed. That are now part of the main board.
So if they act differently I can't test one.
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The SH624 Security Remote only sends a single copy. The CM15A has always used the HiMark RX3310A so I doubt the newer SMT version of the CM15A acts differently - it has merely moved the RF Receiver circuitry from a daughterboard to the main PCB.
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@Brian H
What happens when you send A1 ON to your Powerhorn from a Palmpad (which always sends a minimum of 5 copies of the code)?
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I was asked about time between words. I marked several times with the cursors. Word 1 - Word 2 period was 516.0 ms. Word 2 - Word 3 period was 514.0 ms. So about half second period. The silence between words is less of course and that measured 444.0 ms W1-W2 and 442 ms W2-W3.
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The silence between words is less of course and that measured 444.0 ms W1-W2 and 442 ms W2-W3.
That's 10x the silence between those sent from a Palmpad. Could the newer transceivers merely be acting on the length of the silence?
I wonder what happens if you change the address used by the KR15A as described in its manual.
files.buyitsellit.com/8181/KR15A.pdf (http://files.buyitsellit.com/8181/KR15A.pdf)
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@Brian H
What happens when you send A1 ON to your Powerhorn from a Palmpad (which always sends a minimum of 5 copies of the code)?
SH10A Date Code:04H33
I can trigger the SH10A with a constant stream of A1 AOn commands from both a HR12A Palm Pad
or a UR19A 6 in 1 Remote. By holding the button down continuously or pushing the button down and releasing repeatedly.
After being triggered it will sound for four minutes and time out.
Sending a few A1 AOff commands it stops before the four minutes is over.
If you send a cycle A1 AOn A1 AOff it will trigger after about four cycles and continue for about
four seconds after the cycle sequence stops.
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@Brian H
What happens when you send A1 ON to your Powerhorn from a Palmpad (which always sends a minimum of 5 copies of the code)?
SH10A Date Code:04H33
I can trigger the SH10A with a constant stream of A1 AOn commands from both a HR12A Palm Pad
or a UR19A 6 in 1 Remote. By holding the button down continuously or pushing the button down and releasing repeatedly.
After being triggered it will sound for four minutes and time out.
Sending a few A1 AOff commands it stops before the four minutes is over.
If you send a cycle A1 AOn A1 AOff it will trigger after about four cycles and continue for about
four seconds after the cycle sequence stops.
Hmm! Maybe it's just looking for commands every ~440mS which would seldom be coming from/for standard
(i.e. non-Security) X10 devices.
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While not directly applicable, in this thread from a couple of years back I discussed how nearly every X10 RF transmitter sends 5 or more copies of the code.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29059.0 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29059.0)
The only X10 security devices I've ever had are the SH624 & KR15A so I never did much experimenting/exploring on the security side.
These days both of my hands are nearly useless for handling small, intricate devices so even breadboarding to experiment with how the newer TM751 responds to various scenarios is beyond me. It might prove interesting if someone with a Raspberry Pi (or Arduino) and a 310MHz Transmitter module were to play around with this.
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"I wonder what happens if you change the address used by the KR15A as described in its manual."
I tried different house/unit codes at the beginning of my investigation. Don't remember what combinations I tried but none were passed on by the TM751 or seen by the CM15a. I saved an RF waveform file for code H3. I may load it back to the scope later and check the timing but I don't think it was significantly different from A1.
Andy D
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"I wonder what happens if you change the address used by the KR15A as described in its manual."
I tried different house/unit codes at the beginning of my investigation. Don't remember what combinations I tried but none were passed on by the TM751 or seen by the CM15a. I saved an RF waveform file for code H3. I may load it back to the scope later and check the timing but I don't think it was significantly different from A1.
Andy D
Then I think we're left with nothing other than the time between codes as the deciding factor for relaying to the powerline.
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SH10A Small Powerhorn.
Sending an On or Off to its address.
Then a Bright it will Ding or a Dim it will Dong.
Brian,
This was your first test with the SH10A. You did not specify which RF transmitter you used.
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While I doubt it will help with your garage door, I'd like to know what happens with the relay in the TM751. Does it 'clack' with the KR15A button press?
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"Does it 'clack' with the KR15A button press?"
No, the TM751 is unresponsive in all respects. We know the RF signals are demodulated and sent to the micro-controller but it does not like the command sequence.
It would be nice to understand what the TM751 really needs. As suggested earlier, running various code transmissions with an Arduino or Pi would be interesting but I don't currently have that capability. Can either of you point me to any open source code that generates X10 wireless codes, preferably for the PC. I could drive a transmitter with a control line of an RS232 port.
Andy D
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SH10A Small Powerhorn.
Sending an On or Off to its address.
Then a Bright it will Ding or a Dim it will Dong.
Brian,
This was your first test with the SH10A. You did not specify which RF transmitter you used.
That information was in the single instruction sheet in the box. I used a Palm Pad and my installed system RR501.
The four minute tripping with a stream of On commands I found by accident and not in the instructions I have.
The KR15A also sends a On then Bright commands if the button is held longer. So it will also cause it to Ding a few times. If held even longer. It starts the stream of On commands and it then starts the screeching for four minutes.
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With older TM751s the relay is operated as soon as a valid RF Code is received - before the code is transceived to the powerline.
There is a link to sample code for a PIC on my RF Tips & Tricks webpage...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/PIC-RX-TX.TXT (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/PIC-RX-TX.TXT)
It will, at least, give you the needed timing and program flow.
However, I just recalled that I have a couple of custom Arduino boards that run ZBasic. It will be fairly simple to add a 310MHz transmitter and write code for for one of those boards. I would like to first setup & test my USB 'scope. Then, I need to see whether I still have a new model TM751. I'm a bit slow these days and things that once took 2-3 hours now take 2-3 days (or weeks) so you'll need to bear with me.
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"With older TM751s the relay is operated as soon as a valid RF Code is received - before the code is transceived to the powerline."
The relay activation and the power line code generation both depend on the output of the receiver being accepted as valid. You would either get both responses or neither response.
Thanks for the link to the RF code.
Andy D
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The relay activation and the power line code generation both depend on the output of the receiver being accepted as valid. You would either get both responses or neither response.
Yes, but with the older TM751 the clack of the relay was a quick way to confirm the RF connection. With the new one, you needed a 'scope to verify that.
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Well now I'm confused as to how many different TM751 there are. All of mine have the Himark receiver and the relay switched socket.
Andy
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Well now I'm confused as to how many different TM751 there are. All of mine have the Himark receiver and the relay switched socket.
There are two basic versions. Older ones used super-regenerative receivers and had an FCC ID (requiring testing in an FCC approved lab). Newer ones (some of which had no relay) use super-heterodyne receivers and have a Tested to comply with FCC standards label. All three versions are shown here...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/ImproveTM751.html (https://www.laser.com/dhouston/ImproveTM751.html)
The one labelled TM751, SR-WB receiver is a TM751A where I replaced the superhet receiver with a superregen (wider bandwidth, to better cope with the poorly tuned remotes).
As I noted earlier in the thread I've seen some with the later label but with the earlier innards. I suspect Authinx's supplier found some old inventory and slapped the newer labels on them. The short-lived relayless TM751A was likely due to another inventory glitch.
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My new USB 'scope (Hantek 1008B, 8 channels, 12-bit resolution) installed cleanly on a desktop running W7. It is currently displaying its built-in 1KHz squarewave. Now I just need to learn how to use it - which may take awhile.
It also installed on my laptop running W10 but, there, it insists on speaking Chinese. Since I doubt I'll live long enough to learn Chinese I'll work with the desktop until I learn how to make it speak English on the laptop.
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It's pretty clear that the MCUs in the CM15A and newer TM751 handle the KR15A codes differently than the older TM751 and the RR501. I doubt there's anything that can be done about that short of replacing the firmware in the MCUs.
My short term whatchamacallit isn't so good these days so I don't recall whether there has been a redesign of the RR501. It has always had its own super-regenerative RF receiver built in to its main PCB. If there has been no redesign, the simplest solution to andyd's issue is to buy an RR501.
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I have two RR501s in use but behind furniture which makes it difficult for a gimpy geezer to get at to change the Housecode. I did find an HC50X (RCA version of the RR501) in the catacombs and its relay clacks reliably when I push my KR15A button.
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Thanks for the link to the RF code.
You'll likely get to this before I do. Using one of your TM751s listening on Housecode A, try sending a single A1 ON followed by a long silence. Follow this by sending 5 copies of A1 ON separated by 40mS. If the TM751 reports the second, try with 2, 3, & 4 copies to see just how many it wants to see.
I'm not sure I still have the SH624. If I can find it I'll try to see just what it transmits. A point that I don't understand is that both new & old TM751s responded to Brian's SH624.
PS: I tried installing from the DVD included with the hardware as well as a download from Hantek's webpage for the 1008B and both speak Chinese on my W10 laptop.
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I don't have any present hardware RR501's.
I have two different hardware version RR501's with differences.
Neither one has HiMark type receiver in it.
KR15A Single Button push. Done twice to verify command received.
Older RR501. ABright was seen twice for each single button activation.
Date Code:02F23. Controller P10283E. PCB H10137E. Has mechanical Push Button for On Off.
KR15A Single Button push.
R: A1 - 1:08:05 PM 4/25/2017
R: AOn - 1:08:05 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:08:06 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:08:07 PM 4/25/2017
R: A1 - 1:08:12 PM 4/25/2017
R: AOn - 1:08:13 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:08:13 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:08:14 PM 4/25/2017
Newer RR501. ABright was seen one time for each single button push.
Date Code:10E29. Controller P10308C. PCB 10432K. Has carbon contact Button for On Off.
KR15A Single Button push.
R: A1 - 1:11:56 PM 4/25/2017
R: AOn - 1:11:57 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:11:58 PM 4/25/2017
R: A1 - 1:12:02 PM 4/25/2017
R: AOn - 1:12:03 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:12:03 PM 4/25/2017
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I'm guessing they want to see each command more than once. It would be good to have data from a KR15A that does does drive a newer TM751 or CM15A if such a thing exists.
I think your guess is on the money.
While I did extensive testing with standard X10 RF, the only security RF devices I have/had are the SH624 remote, a motion sensor and the KR15A. I never did any extensive capture of the Security RF codes. I noted that the SH624 sent a single code vs. 5-6 sent by other X10 remotes but suspect that I never recorded past 200-300mS since the standard codes have only a 40mS gap between codes.
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I do still have my SH624. I'll set up a receiver and my 'scope (with its 85 page user manual) and try to thoroughly document what it transmits. It may have to wait until next weekend as I have medical appointments for the next three days.
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Security buttons did show in AHP but no activity on the power lines.
None of the other tested modules had any power line actions. With Security Buttons.
I think this is key. The CM15A does interpret the single RF code as security related. That seems to confirm that the singlets are sent only by security transmitters like the SH624 & KR15A.
Why they didn't just use the security protocol used by things like their security motion sensors and why the later TM751 just ignores it are probably attributable to the philosophy of X10s Programmer for Security Devices (shown below).
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Just a quick correction...
I still haven't managed to set up my 'scope with an RF receiver (medical appointments 4 days a week) but I dug out two SH624 security remotes plus a CR14A camera remote and tested with a new TM751. When set to housecode A both security remotes clack the relay on & off. The CR14A will clack the relay on but not off.
I suspect this means my memory is faulty and/or I never thoroughly checked the SH624. At this point I suspect it sends multiple codes for the standard keys but singlets for the alarm keys. I'll try to verify that once I can get the 'scope connected to a 310MHz receiver.
As the KR15A is the only thing that fails to clack the relay and andyd has shown it sends a single code, it appears that the CM15A and later TM751 distinguish between single and multiple codes while the older TM751 and RR501 do not. This appears to be a function of their MCUs.