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[dhouston]

With older TM751s the relay is operated as soon as a valid RF Code is received - before the code is transceived to the powerline.

There is a link to sample code for a PIC on my RF Tips & Tricks webpage...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/PIC-RX-TX.TXT
It will, at least, give you the needed timing and program flow.

However, I just recalled that I have a couple of custom Arduino boards that run ZBasic. It will be fairly simple to add a 310MHz transmitter and write code for for one of those boards. I would like to first setup & test my USB 'scope. Then, I need to see whether I still have a new model TM751. I'm a bit slow these days and things that once took 2-3 hours now take 2-3 days (or weeks) so you'll need to bear with me.

[andyd]

"With older TM751s the relay is operated as soon as a valid RF Code is received - before the code is transceived to the powerline."

The relay activation and the power line code generation both depend on the output of the receiver being accepted as valid.  You would either get both responses or neither response.

Thanks for the link to the RF code.

Andy D

[dhouston]

The relay activation and the power line code generation both depend on the output of the receiver being accepted as valid.  You would either get both responses or neither response.

Yes, but with the older TM751 the clack of the relay was a quick way to confirm the RF connection. With the new one, you needed a 'scope to verify that.

[andyd]

Well now I'm confused as to how many different TM751 there are.   All of mine have the Himark receiver and the relay switched socket.

Andy

[dhouston]

Well now I'm confused as to how many different TM751 there are.   All of mine have the Himark receiver and the relay switched socket.

There are two basic versions. Older ones used super-regenerative receivers and had an FCC ID (requiring testing in an FCC approved lab). Newer ones (some of which had no relay) use super-heterodyne receivers and have a Tested to comply with FCC standards label. All three versions are shown here...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/ImproveTM751.html
The one labelled TM751, SR-WB receiver is a TM751A where I replaced the superhet receiver with a superregen (wider bandwidth, to better cope with the poorly tuned remotes).
As I noted earlier in the thread I've seen some with the later label but with the earlier innards. I suspect Authinx's supplier found some old inventory and slapped the newer labels on them. The short-lived relayless TM751A was likely due to another inventory glitch.

[dhouston]

My new USB 'scope (Hantek 1008B, 8 channels, 12-bit resolution) installed cleanly on a desktop running W7. It is currently displaying its built-in 1KHz squarewave. Now I just need to learn how to use it - which may take awhile.

It also installed on my laptop running W10 but, there, it insists on speaking Chinese. Since I doubt I'll live long enough to learn Chinese I'll work with the desktop until I learn how to make it speak English on the laptop.

[dhouston]

It's pretty clear that the MCUs in the CM15A and newer TM751 handle the KR15A codes differently than the older TM751 and the RR501. I doubt there's anything that can be done about that short of replacing the firmware in the MCUs.

My short term whatchamacallit isn't so good these days so I don't recall whether there has been a redesign of the RR501. It has always had its own super-regenerative RF receiver built in to its main PCB. If there has been no redesign, the simplest solution to andyd's issue is to buy an RR501.

[dhouston]

I have two RR501s in use but behind furniture which makes it difficult for a gimpy geezer to get at to change the Housecode. I did find an HC50X (RCA version of the RR501) in the catacombs and its relay clacks reliably when I push my KR15A button.

[dhouston]

Thanks for the link to the RF code.

You'll likely get to this before I do. Using one of your TM751s listening on Housecode A, try sending a single A1 ON followed by a long silence. Follow this by sending 5 copies of A1 ON separated by 40mS. If the TM751 reports the second, try with 2, 3, & 4 copies to see just how many it wants to see.

I'm not sure I still have the SH624. If I can find it I'll try to see just what it transmits. A point that I don't understand is that both new & old TM751s responded to Brian's SH624.

PS: I tried installing from the DVD included with the hardware as well as a download from Hantek's webpage for the 1008B and both speak Chinese on my W10 laptop.

[Brian H]

I don't have any present hardware RR501's.
I have two different hardware version RR501's with differences.
Neither one has HiMark type receiver in it.
 
KR15A Single Button push. Done twice to verify command received.

Older RR501. ABright was seen twice for each single button activation.
Date Code:02F23. Controller P10283E. PCB H10137E. Has mechanical Push Button for On Off.

KR15A Single Button push.
R: A1 - 1:08:05 PM 4/25/2017
R: AOn - 1:08:05 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:08:06 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:08:07 PM 4/25/2017
R: A1 - 1:08:12 PM 4/25/2017
R: AOn - 1:08:13 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:08:13 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:08:14 PM 4/25/2017

Newer RR501. ABright was seen one time for each single button push.
Date Code:10E29. Controller P10308C. PCB 10432K. Has carbon contact Button for On Off.

KR15A Single Button push.
R: A1 - 1:11:56 PM 4/25/2017
R: AOn - 1:11:57 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:11:58 PM 4/25/2017
R: A1 - 1:12:02 PM 4/25/2017
R: AOn - 1:12:03 PM 4/25/2017
R: ABright - 1:12:03 PM 4/25/2017

[dhouston]

I'm guessing they want to see each command more than once.  It would be good to have data from a KR15A that does does drive a newer TM751 or CM15A if such a thing exists.

I think your guess is on the money.

While I did extensive testing with standard X10 RF, the only security RF devices I have/had are the SH624 remote, a motion sensor and the KR15A. I never did any extensive capture of the Security RF codes. I noted that the SH624 sent a single code vs. 5-6 sent by other X10 remotes but suspect that I never recorded past 200-300mS since the standard codes have only a 40mS gap between codes. 

[dhouston]

I do still have my SH624. I'll set up a receiver and my 'scope (with its 85 page user manual) and try to thoroughly document what it transmits. It may have to wait until next weekend as I have medical appointments for the next three days.

[dhouston]

Security buttons did show in AHP but no activity on the power lines.
None of the other tested modules had any power line actions. With Security Buttons.

I think this is key. The CM15A does interpret the single RF code as security related. That seems to confirm that the singlets are sent only by security transmitters like the SH624 & KR15A.

Why they didn't just use the security protocol used by things like their security motion sensors and why the later TM751 just ignores it are probably attributable to the philosophy of X10s Programmer for Security Devices (shown below).
 

[dhouston]

Just a quick correction...

I still haven't managed to set up my 'scope with an RF receiver (medical appointments 4 days a week) but I dug out two SH624 security remotes plus a CR14A camera remote and tested with a new TM751. When set to housecode A both security remotes clack the relay on & off. The CR14A will clack the relay on but not off.

I suspect this means my memory is faulty and/or I never thoroughly checked the SH624. At this point I suspect it sends multiple codes for the standard keys but singlets for the alarm keys. I'll try to verify that once I can get the 'scope connected to a 310MHz receiver.

As the KR15A is the only thing that fails to clack the relay and andyd has shown it sends a single code, it appears that the CM15A and later TM751 distinguish between single and multiple codes while the older TM751 and RR501 do not. This appears to be a function of their MCUs.