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Author Topic: Installed new switch (XPS3-IW) but it trips the breaker when I connect it  (Read 14705 times)

KDR

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If all you have in the switch box is a black and a white and those 2 wires are hooked to the terminals on the switch then the power coming in to feed this light is up in the light itself.

There is no neutral in the switch box so the XPS3 won't work. If the light is incandescent there are some other X10 products that could work in this application. (I am at work right now but can post more details later)
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dave w

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That said I do have one other question about x10 given what I have seen here.  Many of the old light switches I would like to swap out are in single gang boxes that have only three wires

white (to the light fixture according to my multimeter)
black (line)
copper / bare


For control of incandescent bulbs only, the WS467  will work on your 2-wire "line - load" configuration. The WS467 will not work with CFLs or Fluorescent, etc. only incandescent lights.

For 3-way, again incandescent only, the WS4777 will work.
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steven r

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...Since some old wiring may have more than one circuit in a box, insure power is off with a voltage tester before touching any wires with your hands....
I made that shocking discovery 1st hand.

Following the "saturation principle for lost items", I now own more than one voltage tester. i.e. If you lose enough of the same item your probability of finding one when you need it is increased. Also they're cheep. Get one that identifies 110 and 220 volts and you can use it with an extension cord as a "poor man's tester" to see if two outlets are on the same phase. Actually you can use any tester rated to 220V but it's more fun to see the 220 bulb light up.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2007, 01:11:52 PM by steven r »
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JeffVolp

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Quote
I made that shocking discovery 1st hand.

I was told an interesting story by an electrician.  He had been working on ceiling fixtures, and the wires were hanging down.  He tripped the breaker for the circuit, positioned his aluminum ladder right under where he wanted to work, and climbed up.  He found he had tripped the wrong breaker when his head hit the wires.

It still makes me chuckle whenever I think about it.

Jeff
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Brian H

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One of my fellow workers had a big surprise. His porch outlets kept dropping voltage at very low current. He found that someone had added 300 OHM TV antenna wire to add outlets. ::) :o
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steven r

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...It still makes me chuckle whenever I think about it....
When it happens to you, it's always funnier in retrospect.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2007, 01:05:03 AM by steven r »
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JimC

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Quote from:
It still makes me chuckle whenever I think about it.

Then you should find this hilarious. 

Many years ago, while still in highschool I worked part time with an electrician. We were in the process of completely gutting an old apartment building in preparation for its renovation. My instruction from the owner of the company was to cut out all of the old light fixtures hanging in the hall. Before removing the first one he assured me that the power was turned off. The last thing I remember was un-mounting the first fixture and raising my cutters to cut the first set of wires. The next thing I saw was the ceiling looking up at it from laying flat on my back on the floor. I remember  looking at my diagonal cutters and seeing a very large section missing. The first words out of my bosses mouth were "Don't worry I'll buy you a new pair".   >:(

Oh by the way the lights were 220 volt. If nothing else I gained an instant respect for electricity and I also learned to never trust anyone who tells me the power is off. :)
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_ _ ...  ..._ _

Boiler

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High voltage makes the experience "invigorating".  It's the current that kills.

Back when I was a youngster (just after dirt was invented) I learned a valuable lesson on low voltage systems.  I had just finished welding some new patch panels on my old Ford.  I reconnected the battery (disconnected during welding) and jumped into the car to fire it up.  The car cranked slowly then caught and started but when I tried to give it gas I found the accelerator was stuck - HARD.  I jumped back out, dove under the hood and yanked on the metal braided accelerator cable. 

I can remember hearing and smelling my hand burning before actually feeling it.  I had left the ground cable off the engine block.  The 400+ amps of current had routed through the accelerator cable turning it white hot.  I'm fortunate it didn't ignite anything in the fuel system and fireball my heap while I was in it.

It's been 36 years and I still tell the story and show "youngsters" my hand WHENEVER I here them disrespecting electricity.  Even low voltage systems can kill you under the right circumstances.

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KDR

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In high school electronics class we built a Tesla Coil Generator. We wanted more output so we made a bigger one. 8" diameter core 6 feet high. Used a 20,000 volt neon transformer for a primary. The calculated output was 750,000 volts. (never could measure it). We fired it up and it was spectacular. All the florescent lights in the room started glowing and we had an arc from the top of it to the metal frame of one of the lights.

As we stood around it in awe... I decided to walk over to the other side of the room. As I passed the greatest thing we ever built the arc to the light fixture move from it to me. They tell me that when I jumped there was an arc from me to the floor. All I remember is being on the floor. To this day I'm still not sure we calculated the correct output voltage but it seemed accurate to me..

----------------KDR
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Rick Fisher

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Based on this event and my experience, you cannot use an XPS3-IW on a line protected by a GFCI.  I tried to install a GFCI on a circuit with two functioning X10 switches and it popped immediately and would not reset.  After repeatedly resetting it, it stayed reset for a while but I later discovered the the two X10 switches were destroyed.  One was totally dead and the other had its red light out.  I believe this is due to the constant current draw of the switch electronics.  I had the same problem trying to install a GFCI on a circuit with a neon glow switch.  It popped immediately.  Most houses are wired with the lighting circuit separate from the outlet circuits so this doesn't come up.  However my house has many switch controlled outlets and some outlets before the switch too.  I called X10 and they would not concur although this is obvious and should be in the literature.
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Boiler

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Rick,

It sounds like you have a wiring problem on this circuit.  The GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) detects the presence of current on the ground line (bare copper) or a short between the common (white wire) and ground.  The XPS3 switches does not connect to the ground wire not connect to the ground wire - is should not be the source of the problem unless something is mis-wired or you have a ground wire shorting in you box.

XPS3 wiring:
http://www.x10pro.com/pro/pdf/xps3.pdf

I have many X10 devices on GFCI breakers in my basement and garage (I'll admit that none of them are XPS3's) and have no problems. 

There is a thread on this subject here:
http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=11038.0

And a nice description of the GFCI operation here:
http://www.codecheck.com/gfci_principal.htm

Come to think of it, why are you installing a GFCI on a line with a relay switch?  Do the switches control an outlet or a hardwired light.  Switches controlling hardwired lights are not normally protected by GFCI's (unless I'm out of date on my wiring code - possible). 

Are you using a panel mounted GFCI breaker, or a GFCI receptacle (outlet)?

Sorry for all the questions - I'm trying to get a handle on your configuration.
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