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[zimbricd]

I have been using a couple of SR227 X10 receptacles for about 7 years now in my home. I use these exclusively for Christmas decorations, in particular I have about three (3) strings of standard indoor Christmas lights on each SR227. I noticed that starting about two (2) years ago, the SR227 units are having an issue with turning on from an X10 signal. When a signal is sent to turn ON (both are set to D15), they turn ON-OFF-ON-OFF in rapid succession within about 250mS and then remain in the OFF state. If I remove the load (lights) from the outlet, the SR227s work fine. But as soon as I plug in the string of lights, the problem returns.

I just purchased a couple of XPPF plugin noise filters, which should be here this week. I will see if this helps the problem, but I thought I would post here in case others have seen this and have a different solution.

Just for background sake, I have an X10 Pro Phase Couple installed in my home, an RR501 on House Code D and I am using a custom controller that sends serial commands to an Insteon 2412S Modem. But, I have seen the same behavior with ActiveHome software with a CM11A as well as simply hitting the D15 ON on a HR12A Remote. So, I don't think it has anything to do with the controller or signal being sent, since it seems to happen with any hardware/software/controller combination including no controller at all.

Any help, suggestions or comments are welcome!

[Brian H]

If you turn them on with no lights connected. Then connect the lights. Do they stay on or go right back off?
It sounds like the sensing circuit that verifies the on or off condition is not working. Thus when it turns on it thinks it didn't go on and tries a few more times. Then give up.

[zimbricd]

If I send an ON signal with no lights connected (nothing plugged into the SR227), I hear the tell-tale click of the relay only once indicating that the power is on. If I then plug in the lights, they turn on and stay on. If I send an OFF command, I hear the relay click off and the lights go off. But if I try to send an ON again with the lights plugged in, I get the On-Off-On-Off chatter and the lights go on and off rapidly about 2 or 3 times (I can hear the relay click really loudly since it is in my Foyer with a tile floor  ). If I unplug the lights, I can turn ON and OFF the SR227 normally with an ON and OFF command (I only hear the relay once clicking ON and once clicking OFF).

This issue happens identically on each of my SR227 units. Both have three (3) strings of lights. For what it's worth, one set of three is made up of 3.5V lights and the other set of three (3) is made up of 2.5V lights so the loads must be slightly different but I am not sure. If I have time tomorrow, I will try to put an amp meter on the strings and see if i can measure the load of each.

I am still suspecting either noise or a load issue with the SR227. It is possible that the sensing circuit is not seeing enough of a load with the low-voltage lights, but I did try a lamp with a 60W bulb in it earlier and it did the same thing, which is why I am leaning toward a noise issue.

[Dan Lawrence]

Now, unplug everything (except the SR227) on a circuit and see if you can turn the lights on and off.  If you can, plug one thing in and try the on an off, repeat until the lights turn on but no off - that's the offending device and needs a filter.  Certain "Wall-warts" (cell phone chargers, etc.) are known noise producers.

[dave w]

If I send an ON signal with no lights connected (nothing plugged into the SR227), I hear the tell-tale click of the relay only once indicating that the power is on. If I then plug in the lights, they turn on and stay on. If I send an OFF command, I hear the relay click off and the lights go off. But if I try to send an ON again with the lights plugged in, I get the On-Off-On-Off chatter and the lights go on and off rapidly about 2 or 3 times (I can hear the relay click really loudly since it is in my Foyer with a tile floor  ). If I unplug the lights, I can turn ON and OFF the SR227 normally with an ON and OFF command (I only hear the relay once clicking ON and once clicking OFF).

I am still suspecting either noise or a load issue with the SR227.

FWIW $0.02

Noise usually will not cause "clicity-clickty-click" (three rapid clicks per ON or OFF command). Noise prevents the signal getting to the module, so "no action" is the typical symptom of noise.

As always there are exceptions, so don't rule out noise. But as Brian pointed out, "clicity-clickty-click" is symptomatic of the relay position feedback circuit confused or failing.

The feedback circuit looks at the relay output to "go high" (120V ) after an ON command (or "low" after an OFF). If the circuit does not see the output go high, it "fires" the relay solenoid two more times and then will quit attempting if it doesn't get the desired response, hence three rapid clicks followed by silence.

Fixing it is hit and miss. I have fixed a few intermittent clicity-clickty-click Appliance Modules by simply burnishing the relay contacts. On the other hand, last weekend I threw away a clicity-clickty-click after cleaning the contacts with no results. There isn't a whole lot of components in the feedback circuit back to pin 8 of the chip, but I have never tried to troubleshoot past dirty contacts. I believe the X10 receptacle uses the internal circuity, just different layout.

[Brian H]

It does sound like dirty contacts.
Any load seems to be enough to trigger the event.

[dave w]

It does sound like dirty contacts.
Any load seems to be enough to trigger the event.

Yeah, except I would think Christmas decoration, considering the length of time they are in use, wouldn't dirty up the contacts that much. Maybe exposure to 7 years of the elements has oxidized the contacts, but I would have thought a few ON-OFF exercises would have fixed that. I dunno, I was just tossing in my two cents.

I think I will dig my clickty-clickty-click Appliance Module out of the trash and check diodes. If I find anything, will post results.

[Brian H]

Maybe a few on off cycles with a heavier load may remove oxidation if it is the problem.

[twood]

I have used dozens of SR227s over the years and have experienced that chatter countless times.  I have never found a cure for it.  Replacing a chattering unit with a new one will correct the problem for a while, but eventually every SR227 I have ever used has failed.  They either begin to chatter or not respond at all.  I concluded that they are inherently unreliable and don't use them any more.  I have even used the wire-in-fixture Pro modules in an attempt to make a wall receptacle reliable, but these, too, eventually fail.  Conversely, I find that appliance modules never fail.  You would think that they would all share the same design.

I have also found the lamp modules to be very reliable.  The newer "soft-start" modules, however, seem to fail if a light bulb in their circuit burns out.  Anyone else seen this?

[JeffVolp]

The chattering is usually caused by the failure of a little plastic piece inside that toggles the relay on and off.  We have several of the Leviton version here.  One failed in short order (that plastic piece), but the others are still working fine after over 5 years.  Of course, they will probably fail tomorrow...

The fact that his unit works without the lights plugged in sounds like a different issue.  Oxidized contacts presenting a high resistance could make the unit think it is not switched on, causing the chattering as it tries repeatedly to turn on.

Jeff

[zimbricd]

All:

Thanks for the great feedback and I have an update today. I received the XPPF Filters today and as expected, it did not resolve the "clicity-clickty-click" (thanks dave w, I'll be using that from now on...) issue. One of the filters did fix my issue with an appliance module that was sharing a circuit with my LCD TV and cable box.

When I tried the XPPF in the SR227, it did nothing as I mentioned. But I did notice that after plugging in the lights when the SR227 was in the ON state, the lights were a bit dimmer and I could hear an audible "buzzing" from the SR227. Then after maybe 1 second or less, the buzzing stopped and lights got brighter. So, the "dirty contacts" theory is my best bet at this point. I only use the outlet at Christmas time, and the rest of the year the SR227 is empty. It is mounted in an electrical box located in the floor of our "carpeted ledge" as we call it, above the front door in the foyer (which is open to second floor) so the outlet slots are facing up (horizontal) as opposed to most wall outlets that are vertical. Thus, it is possible that a lot of dust could settle in the unit and cause problems, even though it is not used much (or that lack of use may also contribute to the issue).

So, I am probably off to eBay to get a good deal on replacement SR227s for now or I may "bite the bullet" and go with an Insteon OutletLinc (staying away from the SR227 on twoods advice) since I am migrating to an Insteon system anyway. Thanks again for the input. I will reply when I get the new unit installed and have some results to report.

Dave Z

[Brian H]

Yes your added data points to dirty contacts in the SR227. They are not in a sealed case inside the module, so they are exposed internally.
The SwitchLinc I believe has a sealed relay inside the module.

We will be waiting for your update.

[dave w]

"clicity-clickty-click" (thanks dave w, I'll be using that from now on...)

Appreciate it, but I have to give credit to Dave Rye from a late 1980's phone conversation. He nailed the sound with a perfect verbal description and told me to check the contacts. 

[zimbricd]

Ok, as luck would have it, I had another new-in-box SR227 in my X10 overstock. I put the SR227 in today and wouldn't you know it? No more "clickity-clickity-click"! So I performed a postmortem on the old SR227 and the contacts looked a little corroded but nothing terrinble. So I took an emery board to the contacts (I have tuner cleaner lying around but I thought that might get a little messy in tight quarters) and cleaned each surface up a bit. I've re-assembled the SR227 but have not tested it yet. The immediate problem is solved for now, but I think I will fire up this "bad" SR227 and see if there is a little life left. If I reuse it, it will be in a much more accessible place than the foyer ledge 

Thanks again for the great input everyone!!

Dave Z

[Brian H]

Glad to hear the new one solved the problem.
It will be interesting to see if the old one now works.