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Author Topic: Signal/Connection issue  (Read 8080 times)

dugan929

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Signal/Connection issue
« on: March 02, 2011, 09:56:16 AM »

I have a CM19A to a TM751 to a PUM-01.
The CM19A can reach the TM751, but nothing happens with the PUM-01.
What is the range for the TM751?  How can I tell if I have a faulty piece of hardware?
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Brian H

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 10:05:34 AM »

The TM751 takes the RF signal from the CM19A and sends a power line signal to the PUM01.

It is very possible you have a power line signal problem from the TM751 to the PUM01.
So there is no specific range for the TM751 to the PUM01 module. As there are power line conditions that effect the range.

As a test try the PUM01 in different locations in the home. To see if it can be controlled by the TM751.

If you have an electric dryer or electric stove. Try turning it on and see if the PUM01 can then be controlled.
That would be a rough check for a phase coupling problem.

Do you have any X10 filters on noise and signal suckers?
Do you have any coupling device between the two phases of the homes wiring?
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/uncle.htm
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=9899.msg57946
http://www.davehouston.net/coupling.htm
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 10:16:52 AM by Brian H »
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dugan929

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 10:16:21 AM »

I will move the PUM01 to different outlets and try that.
I don't have any filters.
No coupling device either.
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Brian H

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2011, 10:50:13 AM »

You may also find a different place for the TM751. Where the CM19A can reach it and the PUM01 can receive the power line signals.
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dugan929

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2011, 12:12:33 PM »

What's the range of the CM19A?
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Brian H

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2011, 12:40:18 PM »

I have not seen any specifications published by X10.
I would say depending on where it is being used and things like walls and large metallic items like refrigerators. May effect its range.
I am sure actual users may have better information for you.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 12:47:35 PM by Brian H »
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dugan929

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 06:44:42 PM »

So I just got home from work and thought i'd try once before trying with my stove or dryer turned on and the PUM01 worked?
Since that's the case is there interference causing it not to work sometimes?
Would it be beneficial to install a coupler-repeater?  If so which one works the best?  If I don't have any open breakers in my electrical box can I splice into existing ones?  Or should I just go with the plug in style where my dryer is?

This x10 stuff is all totally new to me, so thanks in advance for all your help
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dugan929

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 07:23:47 PM »

Well, I just figured out where I am getting interference.
My PUM01 is plugged into an outlet in my garage that is controlled by a switch.  The switch also controls the furnace.  When the furnace is not running the device works.  When the furnace is running the device does not work.  Power comes in and the switch can turn off the furnace and the outlet. 

Is the interference coming from the furnace running or the load it's drawing from the power line?
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dave w

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 07:26:05 PM »

So I just got home from work and thought i'd try once before trying with my stove or dryer turned on and the PUM01 worked?
Since that's the case is there interference causing it not to work sometimes?
Would it be beneficial to install a coupler-repeater?  If so which one works the best?  If I don't have any open breakers in my electrical box can I splice into existing ones?  Or should I just go with the plug in style where my dryer is?

This x10 stuff is all totally new to me, so thanks in advance for all your help
It could be noise or it still could be coupling (water heater on).
Yes a repeater will help with coupling and to a lesser extent will solve some noise issues.
XTBIIR or ACT CR234 are the best but also the most expensive. They are wire-ins, and by code should be on dedicated breakers (it isn't a good practice to put both a solid wire and stranded wire under the same screw) .
Also another wire-in is the X10 XPCR . Not as good as the first two but it does work...sort of, most of the time.  :D  But I have seen on Ebay for $18 so is hard to put it down.
Read about noise and coupling here:
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
Do you have any open breaker slots. Breakers can be had for a low as $6 at the big home improvement stores.
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dave w

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 07:29:32 PM »

Is the interference coming from the furnace running or the load it's drawing from the power line?
Is it a high efficiency gas? or oil furnace?  If so, it is probably noise from the ignition circuit. I don't think load current would cause PUM01 not to work.
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dugan929

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 07:45:00 PM »

It is a high efficient gas furnace.  Even though the ignitor would only kick on at startup, you think it still causes enough noise for the device not to work?  What would my best result be?

1.  Run more wire and move the PUM01 to a different outlet in the garage?  (I only have one more outlet, and it's on the same wall about 8ft down.)

2.  Add a coupler repeater.

Since my electrical box is full, how can I add more breakers?  Do they make metal covers that fit the same size, but have more breaker slots?
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dugan929

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 07:49:45 PM »

Another stupid question.

What's the difference in setting a device to Radio Frequency as opposed to Power Line?
My PUM01 is set to RF and worked when furnace was not running and didn't work when it was on.
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dave w

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 08:47:43 PM »

It is a high efficient gas furnace.  Even though the ignitor would only kick on at startup, you think it still causes enough noise for the device not to work?  What would my best result be?
1.  Run more wire and move the PUM01 to a different outlet in the garage?  (I only have one more outlet, and it's on the same wall about 8ft down.)
2.  Add a coupler repeater.
Since my electrical box is full, how can I add more breakers?  Do they make metal covers that fit the same size, but have more breaker slots?
Yeah, I had a Lennox where the controller board had a noisy switching power supply. Crashed all X10 on that breaker whether furnace was ingnited or not.
1. Probably would not help unless you bring in a seperate circuit.
2. A repeater might help. You could try the cheap XPCR. $20 don't hurt too bad if it does not fix completely. Also you could add a X10 filter in the furnace power line, or if necessarythe power to the controller board.

You will need to find out how much current the furnace draws and the voltage. My Lennox was 120V but if your furnace is also the air handler for the AC it may be 220V.

http://www.smarthome.com/_/ProductResults.aspx?Ntt=X10 filters

Does your panel have anymore knock-outs unbelow the existing breakers?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 08:55:48 PM by dave w »
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dave w

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 08:53:53 PM »

What's the difference in setting a device to Radio Frequency as opposed to Power Line?
My PUM01 is set to RF and worked when furnace was not running and didn't work when it was on.
OK I'm confused. X10 modules are one or the other.  PLC (power line control) or RF. Only the Active Home Pro controller (CM15A) can do both,  under software control. The Universal Module is PLC ONLY, there is no RF control.
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dugan929

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Re: Signal/Connection issue
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2011, 09:41:39 PM »

What's the difference in setting a device to Radio Frequency as opposed to Power Line?
My PUM01 is set to RF and worked when furnace was not running and didn't work when it was on.
OK I'm confused. X10 modules are one or the other.  PLC (power line control) or RF. Only the Active Home Pro controller (CM15A) can do both,  under software control. The Universal Module is PLC ONLY, there is no RF control.

I'm running x10 commander server software.  When I set up ne devices I give them a name and then have the option of rf or plc.
With the PUM01 set to rf it works?
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