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[bkenobi]

I realized this morning that as a side affect of having the debugging log running on the HA server, I actually have a log of when the burglar got to the house and where he/they went.  It doesn't help catch anyone or, more importantly, get the stuff back, but it is interesting I suppose.

Anyway, when I was reviewing the log, I noticed that the motion sensor connected to the PF module appears to be seen on the wrong HU code some of the time.  It appears that several of the signals that were supposed to be on O1 were recorded as being A1.  Since this is a new PF module and it's doing exactly the same thing as the original one, I conclude that this is an interference or power wire issue and not a module issue.

Has anyone seen this happen (sending the wrong HU code)?  If so, other than reviewing signal suckers/noise generators, what did you do to resolve the issue?  I've tried changing the unit code, but perhaps I should look into changing the house code as well.  Since that's easy enough, I'll give that a try this evening or over the weekend pending my free time.

[bkenobi]

I have succeeded in making my system all but useless over PLC!     Wait...   

Actually, this is sort of a good thing in that I believe the cause was a pair of failing UPS units plus one bad power strip.  One of the UPS units may have improved things by filtering some noise, but when removed things got bad.

Basically, I have one UPS and power strip for my TV/stereo.  I had the battery backup for the TV and DTV receiver such that if power went out for a short time or flickered, the TV would continue to work and the DTV DVR would not reset.  I noticed that the lights and TV flickering at the same time...meaning the TV power was not being filtered by the UPS correctly.  I unplugged the UPS and the TV and DTV DVR immediately died.  Hmmm, turns out it was probably overloaded (350VA UPS isn't quite big enough I guess) and the battery is toast.  I'll check the power strip too, but I think the UPS is the main issue.

Secondly, the UPS I was using for my office was WELL undersized and the battery was very much TOAST!  I installed a 1500VA unit and it works great.

Third, I know I have a power strip on a TV/console setup that's causing noise/signal sucking issues.  I haven't replaced it yet, but if I plug anything in on that circuit, it does not work.

So, after pulling the 2 UPS units and installing the one in the office, things work HORRIBLY!  This means that I'll need to finish that filter project I've got 50% done and sitting in the basement.  It also means I'll need to obtain a battery for the bad UPS and up to 3 good quality surge protectors.  I may also opt to purchase a filter (or a few).  I just need to verify that I'm well under the 5A limit for the X10 plugin filters.

[Brian H]

Well if needed. Smarthome makes a 1626-10 10 amp filter and ACT AF120 a 15 amp filter.
I have a 10 amp FilterLinc on my UPS and the unfiltered pass through outlet on it has my 2413S Insteon PLM in it.

[bkenobi]

5 Amp
http://www.x10.com/pro/automation/xppf.htm

10 Amp
http://www.smarthome.com/22955/Simply-Automated-ZNF10A-P-Noise-Filter-and-Attenuation-Isolator-Plug-In/p.aspx
http://www.smarthome.com/1626-10/FilterLinc-10-Amp-Plug-In-Noise-Filter/p.aspx

15 Amp
http://www.smarthome.com/4845ACF/ACT-AF120-15-Amp-Plug-In-Noise-Filter/p.aspx

20 Amp
http://www.smarthome.com/4834/X10-XPF-20A-3-Wire-X10-Noise-Filter/p.aspx


I purchased a 20 Amp for the office and will be getting the enclosure with 2 outlets finished this evening.  I could do the same with the other locations, but I'll probably just use a plug-in filter since they are smaller and easier to deal with.  I wanted an extension cord from the wall inside the desk anyway, so it made sense for that instance.

Of the 5-15 Amp filters, which is best?  I'd rather get a 10-15 Amp plug-in than a 5 Amp if it's close.

[Brian H]

Not too much help here.

The XPPF is known to get warm and smell. If pushed near 5 amps.

I have not seen any thing on the ZNF10A-P. It looks like a low pass filter as it is rated to filter out above 4KHz signals.

The 10 amp FilterLinc has an internal soldered in fuse if you overload it. Though has an unfiltered outlet on the front.

The ACT AF120 has an external replaceable fuse if you overload it.

The wired in XPF is very large as you probably have already noticed.

[bkenobi]

The XPF is very large for no reason.  I disassembled mine and found that there's a very simple board with what looks like 3 coils (chokes) and 3 capacitors (I think) plus a couple other small components.  The board has very large traces, which makes sense since there would be a lot of power running at 20 Amps.  The board has a lot of extra space at the ends for no reason other than perhaps separation from the screws that tie it down.  I was planning on attaching the board inside my project box and using electrical tape as an extra insulation layer (just in case).  It seems like they made it big so it would look substantial.

[JeffVolp]

The XPF is very large for no reason.

When pushed hard, those inductors may get warm.  The large size increases the surface area to get heat out of the box.

Jeff

[Brian H]

Maybe a standard case they used for a few devices.
My X10Pro XPCR along with Leviton HCA02 and 6201 X10 coupler repeaters all use the exact same case.

[bkenobi]

They used the same case for the XPCR (as Brian H said).  I wouldn't say the enclosure itself is excessively large.  However, the space around the enclosure at each end amounts to 1-1.5" extra length that really isn't necessary.  As for cooling, there isn't going to be that much if the box is sealed.  But, if the components get too close to the case (with or without ventilation) they could cook the plastic.  For this application, I'll be using a bigger case than X10, so I'm not concerned.

I wish X10 had made the case differently so it could have fit in a standard outlet box like some other brands.  That would have been pretty easy since they are close as is.

[bkenobi]

A little bit of an update...

I finished up the filtered outlet extension cord box based around the XPF.  I installed 2 pairs of outlets in the box such that I have 1 pair of filtered and 1 pair unfiltered.  I only intend on using the filtered outlets, but I figured having an extra couple outlets can't hurt since I had the space!

After installing this and plugging in the UPS and surge protector in the filtered outlets, I attempted using my Smarthome X10 toggle switch X10WS467I (not connected to a light, so it just sends the ON/OFF commands that my software interprets).  Nothing...

I then restarted the HA computer thinking that AHP might have broken somehow.  Nothing...

I tried again later and it worked.  The office filter seems to be working find, but, without any kind of filter in the living room, the TV and/or DTV DVR are causing issues.  So, once the battery for my UPS arrives, I'll get that stuff hooked up again and see if I also need a filter.  I'm going to bump up the UPS for that location from 350VA to 725VA.  I suspect that I might have been overloading the old UPS at times which might have over stressed the battery.

Either way, it looks like the living room needs filtering and I might be set.   

[Brian H]

Thanks for the updates.
Hope the filters will be all that is still needed.

[bkenobi]

I just did a quick audit of what equipment I have in the living room that would be on the filter to see what size I need to get.

Device           Amps         Watts
TV                2.1            250
Rcvr              6.2            75
Xbox             1.1            125
DVD              0.625         75
VCR              0.625         75
CD changer    0.625         75
DTV Rcvr       1.1            125
TOTAL          12.375      1475

Anyway, it looks to me like I need a 15A filter.  I was thinking that the ACT AF120 would be a good choice for that location since it has a fuse and is already built the way I'd want it.  Also, there's a bit of a small selection.   

The alternative is to buy a couple of the smaller 10A filters, but that's more expensive and would require extension cords of some kind to physically fit in the outlet. 

Here's another 10A filter:
http://www.smarthome-products.com/p-2385-simply-automated-znf10a-p-noise-filter-insolator-plug-in-10a.aspx

On the other hand, now that I read the details on the label of the 10A FilterLinc, it states 10A max filtered or 15A unfiltered with a combined max of 15A.  If I were to use both plugs, I'd be able to filter some things and leave others unfiltered.  I would suspect that the DVD, VCR, CD Changer at a minimum would not require filtering.  That would bring me down to 10.5A.  Also, those current ratings are peak.  So, it's unlikely that I would see the peak for the TV, Receiver, XBox, and DTV DVR all at the same time.  The only issue here is that I don't want to take a chance of hitting/exceeding that limit especially with a filter that has no changeable fuse.

So, I think I'll just go with an ACT AF120.

[Brian H]

It is a time delay 10 amp fuse if memory serves me. 5X20 mm with leads. I have seen some reports of users changing them after an overload. Cover screwed on and easily to remove.

[bkenobi]

Oh, so it's not soldered in?  If it's simply a fuse in a fuse holder behind the cover, I'm ok with that.  I just don't want to have to source a solder in fuse and replace it all the time.  I suspect that the current numbers the manuals provided was a peak that is only seen if everything is turned on to max (which I don't do cause I like my equipment).

[bkenobi]

I picked up a Kill-A-Watt and battery for the UPS on the way home this evening.  I ran through all of the equipment in my living room and it looks like the spec values are VERY conservative.  I measured each device in it's off state and it's maximum on state.  Each time, it appears that the peak is much less than what's suggested by either the manual or generic lists of equipment found online.  In all, when I have everything turned on, but not at max load (e.g., DVD player on but not playing disc, VCR on but not rewinding, etc.) I found that I maxed around 4A.  I believe that I would be well under 10A if I were to have the stereo cranked to my personal maximum volume and everything else left on (which I don't do).

But, after hooking everything up behind the UPS (surge protector plugged into a surge outlet on the UPS), the lights work correctly again.  I can't say at this point if they work 100% (probably not), but they worked in the quick test I did earlier.  I'm planning on ordering a filter just to be safe, but, as it is, things are back to where they were a couple weeks ago.

Unless things change, I think I'm back up and running.  Thanks for all the help!