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[dave w]

Yes, Dave I read that. But my statement about the government propping up wind and solar energy still stands. "Sustainable", "renewable", blah blahable, energy is far more expensive and problematic, and will be for some time. The new unlawful EPA regulations will shut down a clean gasification, coal generating plant two miles from me. Huge changes in the infrastructure and distribution network must take place to pick up the load. Consequently electric rates will rise, imposing unneeded burden on a large number of families in this area who can not afford it. We can’t abandon “sustainable” energy, but there is no reason for the consumer/tax payer to subsidize it at this time. And that is what we are doing. The “growth” of solar and wind power is artificial.

[HA Dave]

.......Sevaral of the links I cited as well as other links within the articles themselves point to stories and reports........

I literally hate that intelligent on line discussions have been replaced with useless (often bogus) LINKS. Millions of people like you no longer relate to other posters as if we were all members of the same species. Just throw up some semi-related leftist post that has nothing to do with real science or even actual fact.

It is sad when 14 year old kids think they are cleaver by posting their selected Google search results.... to prove their point. But when adults with educated minds do that... it is a shame.

[dhouston]

We can’t abandon “sustainable” energy, but there is no reason for the consumer/tax payer to subsidize it at this time. And that is what we are doing. The “growth” of solar and wind power is artificial.

While there have been grants and tax credits that helped launch solar and wind projects, most have expired or are greatly reduced. But costs, especially for solar, have plummeted - a large solar project in Dubai will supply electricity at less than $0.06 per kWhr which is more than competitive - SolarCity, a major player in rooftop residential solar has announced they will be designing/building larger, regional projects. North Carolina is the second largest solar player while Texas and Oklahoma are leading in wind installations - those three states are hardly bastions of socialism. The next few years will likely see increased use of solar and wind while more and more coal-fired generating plants will be shut down. And, this is happening worldwide not just in the US.

Here's a news story on SolarCity's plans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/business/solarcity-a-vocal-critic-of-the-utility-industry-joins-it.html?ref=science
Here's SolarCity's commercial site.
http://www.solarcity.com/commercial

And, here is yet another advance in solar film technology.
http://www.morningledger.com/researchers-find-new-method-to-make-thinner-perovskite-films-for-solar-cells/138843/

[HA Dave]

........ - a large solar project in Dubai will supply electricity at less than $0.06 per kWhr .............. while more and more coal-fired generating plants will be shut down. And, this is happening worldwide not just in the US.

Mean while.... in China they are opening a new coal fired electric generating plant every week. The Chinese people know poverty... and they are damn tired of it.

I know you really believe! In the religion of environmentalism.... I am sure you are fully ordained. But belief isn't the same as fact.... in the realm of man-made religions.

[dhouston]

Mean while.... in China they are opening a new coal fired electric generating plant every week.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/chinas-choice/2014/jan/30/china-record-solar-energy
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-18/china-increases-solar-target-for-2015-as-it-fights-air-pollution
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100027336/solar-to-match-coal-in-china-by-2016-threatening-fossil-dominance/
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/14/china-introduces-70-solar-subsidy-poor/
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2010/07/renewable-energy-policy-update-for-china
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-working-to-reduce-solar-costs-2014-6
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-laughed-when-it-saw-how-cheap-solar-could-be-2014-6
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-solar-will-destroy-the-power-companies-2014-6
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/01/13/harvard-rhubarb-flow-battery-offers-energy-storage-breakthrough/
http://www.naturalnews.com/041771_battery_breakthrough_membraneless_batteries_energy_storage.html
http://www.rdmag.com/news/2014/02/researchers-make-breakthrough-battery-technology

[Noam]

Sorry for the long absence, but I wanted to give another update on my solar panels:
My system has been active for over 300 days (closing in on my first year), and I've collected a lot of data.

I've been through 10 billing cycles, and I did my best to calculate my savings (basing them on the amount I saved by buying a portion of my power at a discounted rate).
From what I estimated, my monthly savings so far have been (approximately): $75, $74, $76, $89, $54, $20, $13, $15, $13, and $23.

If anyone is interested in finding out more, please let me know (full disclosure: SolarCity has a customer referral program through which I earn a credit for bringing in new customers).
--Noam

[dhouston]

From what I estimated, my monthly savings so far have been (approximately): $75, $74, $76, $89, $54, $20, $13, $15, $13, and $23.

So, it looks like you get A/C for free plus saving a few bucks in each of the cooler months.

Tesla Elon Musk, chairman of the SolarCity board, has announced that he's going to make a major announcement at the end of the month. Most figure it will be about large stationary batteries for storing excess energy rather than feeding the grid, making it easier to cut yet another cord.

But then there's this...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/03/30/why-ditching-the-electric-grid-may-not-actually-be-such-a-good-idea/

[dhouston]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/04/07/study-the-way-we-get-electricity-may-be-on-the-verge-of-a-major-change/

[dhouston]

This could put an end to the problem of carbon dioxide from using coal, oil or gas for electric generation.
http://phys.org/news/2015-04-major-advance-artificial-photosynthesis-poses.html
And this could eliminate much of the methane released to the atmosphere.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/22/world/americas/study-finds-low-cost-in-reducing-methane-emissions.html?ref=us

[dhouston]

Here's an article that is the first I've seen covering the issues the utilities may have with rooftop solar and net metering - that they cannot measure the amount being fed to the grid and that leads to fluctuations which cause them problems. I suspect they are dissembling since net metering tells them how much is being generated (perhaps with less lead-time than they'd like) but as large storage batteries come on the market, their arguments will be vitiated as homeowners cut yet another cord.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/business/energy-environment/solar-power-battle-puts-hawaii-at-forefront-of-worldwide-changes.html?_r=0

As noted earlier by a former Secretary of Energy, the utilities best move would be to become the suppliers of rooftop solar. And they need to do this while they still have the financial wherewithal to manage it.

And the utilities could deal with the fluctuations plus offer customers greater reliability by employing flow batteries to absorb excess solar energy, deploy it during demand peaks as well as function as a grid-scale UPS.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/23/business/energy-environment/liquid-batteries-for-solar-and-wind-power.html?ref=science

[Noam]

My earlier savings estimates look to have been incorrect (I wasn't using the right formula to make the estimation).
Here are (hopefully) more accurate numbers for my estimated monthly savings, beginning last June:
$68, $84, $76, $104, $55, $20, $13, $13, $9, $17.

Here's how I calculated the number for each month:

Actual cost: Electric Utility fixed monthly costs + (total kwh used * electric utility kWh rate) + (solar kWh generated * solar kWh rate).  The billing cycles don't line up, so I shift the solar one to line up with the electric utility one.
Estimated cost without solar: (total kwh used * electric utility kWh rate) + electric utility fixed monthly costs

Estimated Savings: Estimated cost without solar - Actual Cost

[dhouston]

As was long anticipated, Tesla has introduced large residential Lithium batteries that can be charged during peak time for solar and then used to power the residence during solar blackout times. It could allow someone like Noam to cut-the-cord, eliminating net-metering.

• http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/wp/2015/05/01/teslas-powerwall-is-the-latest-step-toward-our-clean-energy-future/
• http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/04/30/why-teslas-announcement-could-be-such-a-big-deal/
• http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/business/energy-environment/with-new-factory-tesla-ventures-into-solar-power-storage-for-home-and-business.html
• http://fortune.com/2015/05/01/tesla-energy-reveal/

Here's an interesting quote from the Fortune article.

All of the power walls and power packs are connected to the Internet and so we’re actually able to get real-time feedback. We’re able to work with the utilities to shift power around and actually manage the grid and we’ll integrate obviously with software like SolarCity’s. If there are other companies out there with compatible software like SolarCity we’ll integrate with theirs too.

[dhouston]

And here's yet another device Noam can add to his system to make him further independent of the grid,

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billtucker/2015/05/07/wind-power-without-the-mills/

[Tuicemen]

I have a small wind turbine at my off grid place to help.
Although it is generally not noticeable it can get very noisy in heavy wind.

The thing with wind turbines is most home units need a steady wind of at least 5-7 miles a hour to start producing anything.
It will be interesting to see the specs on these units and just how quite they really are.

If you have a windy location a turbine will out perform solar and be less costly however I doubt they will be as maintance free.

[Noam]

And here's yet another device Noam can add to his system to make him further independent of the grid,

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billtucker/2015/05/07/wind-power-without-the-mills/

Interesting idea. I doubt my wife would go for it, though. We live at the bottom of a hill (technically, we are uphill in 3 directions - the fourth ends in a cul-de-sac that backs up to a slope down to a creek).
I don't think we get enough wind to make this useful.